Mathews family.

[nelwild]

Hello Steve,hope you had a good evening,just about recovered from mine now.Ive discovered a few more things since we last spoke.

Whilst out and about clearing my head on Saturday,i found myself near Whitstable,and decided to take a look at the Clapham Hill area.The start of Clapham Hill has a number of large and imposing properties,no sign of an Ivy House though.Past these,it turns into the main Canterbury Road and becomes very rural.About a mile along is a crossroads,the left hand one being Bog Hole Lane,just in there a small collection of semi-derelict farm buildings,old cars and an MOT garage.On the gate hangs a handpainted sign saying Pie Alley Farm.

On the other side of the crossroads is Pie Alley Lane, on one corner is the remainder of the farm buildings,converted into small industrial units.And intrestingly,on the other corner,a small travellers plot with a couple of chalet style bungalows,a large trailer,couple of 4x4s and a flat bed truck etc.I had to wonder if thats anything to do with the Spains/Mathews.

Then had another look round Whitstable cemetary and discovered that Lily was buried in the same grave as her husband,and died in 1962,10 years after he did.Behind them is the grave of Phylis Thora Spain 1914-2001,could be an unmarried daughter or daughter-in-law.Next to them is Lily Hubble 1910-1994.Their daughter Lily was born 1910,and theres a marriage for Lily Spain/Donald C Hubble Elham j/a/s 1937.

Couldnt find Donald Hubble on 1911,but intrestingly on 1901 theres a Walter J Hubble born 1863 Yelding,Kent,groom(horse dealing),living next to a horse dealer.A possibility for his Father.

Ive also checked the 1911 to see what Lilys brother Walter was up to then,and it made very intresting reading.

The reg district is Guildford.

First person on page is Walter James Nunn,1 month,born Staine,Middlesex.

Then Henry Vinson,58,basketmaker,born Dorking,Surrey.
Rhoda Vinson,54,hawker,born Eastbourne,Sussex.
George Vinson,25,basketmaker born Holmwood,surrey.
Mary Ann Vinson,23,basketmaker born Walton on hill,Surrey.
Rhoda Vinson,17,basketmaker born Redhill,Surrey.
Alfred,11 months born Mitcham.

Under them is Walter Mathews,24,hawker born Ealing,Hampshire.
Edie or Lily Mathews,27,hawker born Herne Bay,Kent.

I first thought it looked like Edie,but it could easily be Lily.

Theres a marriage in Camberwell for a Walter Mathews/Lily Annie Nunn j/f/m 1909.I think Camberwell is Surrey.

For number of rooms in dwelling its got x then 4 crossed out.

The declaration signature is P McDonald,Registrar.On previous ones ive seen its been the occupant.

Postal address:Commercial Road,Woking.

Names of Head of Family or Seperate Occupier:Police schedule.then postal address is a one word scribble which is completely impossible to read.

Im wondering what this means,particularly the police reference.Could it be some sort of eviction,or maybe they were in custody.Whats also very intresting is theres an identical entry on the 1911,the only difference being it says institution instead of household.Id initially assumed this was someone else.I wonder if thats him too.

I cant find a Lily Nunn born Herne Bay on any earlier census.I was wondering Steve,does your book reveal Nunn to be a traveller name?

I also cant find a trace of these Vinsons anywhere else.Would you know if Vinson is a recognised traveller name?

Im going to post some seperate threads on some of this to see if that gets me any further,back later,nel.

 

[Steve G]

'Morning, Nel. (Or, at least it is to me). Just like to give ye some snap answers to a few things there.

 " Nunn " ? Not recorded. But, " Nunns " crops up. But it's later  and short lived. 1846 - 1973. London and Surrey. How tantalising a glimpse is that?

 " Vinson " ? Only one entry. Staffordshire. and, Bob does point out that a single entry is likely dodgy as all hell.


 As for ye trip around Clapham Hill; That's just fantastic! God, I wish I could've come! I love things like that 

Ye could go and see those Gypsys. Fact that they have a place there suggests they're 'locals'. Descended from the families that always used to travel the area.

 And, even if they're not directly matched in names, I'd bet they'll know a whole lot about who did stop around there.

 Hey, ye never know; Imagine getting to chat with them and discovering they were direct descendents of ye own people? Ye'd have ye own, living Gypsy rellies 

Like that, wouldn't ye? 

 If ye call by, just watch out for the terriers. They'll almost certainly have a terrier or three about the place, and they may not be chained back. Little buggers tend to get ye in the ankles as ye leaving! LMAO! I speak from much experience. I have one myself and she does that too 

 Now, I've got to sort my Dogs out. And I've just got my membership number / Password for the Sussex Family History Group. Joined, on line, with the plastic. One o'clock in the morning. Now I'm in! So, I'm all set to burn the oil plundering their on line, huge data bases of names, baptisms, burials and god knows what! I have Gypsys of my own to hunt, in Sussex 

[nelwild]

Morning Steve,id be very intrested if any of my names crop up on your new site.

Also,Sharon on here has suggested i look for Vinsen/Vinson as this is a well known Hampshire name.

I will go and see the travellers at Clapham Hill,and your right,id be over the moon if they turned out to be direct descendents.There didnt seem to be anyone about when i was there,but as you say several dogs running about in the yard.

I was wondering if you had any thoughts on this police schedule business,what that could mean.

Speak to you soon,nel.

[Steve G]

 No experience of the Police Schedule, Nel. What time they stop for tea?

 Maybe Census and Resource Discussion would be the place to ask? If not, I'm sure it'll soon get shifted to where ever.


 Regards the people on that site? No worries. They're just practising the ancient, Gypsy art of 'Invisibility' 

[nelwild]

Thanks Steve,ill put a message there,nel.

[Steve G]

  Sorted! Look.

[nelwild]

Thanks Steve,that explains it.

Do you think the Vincent family with them is likely to be related?Walter James Nunn,who im assumings their son,is listed seperatly first,then the Vincents,then Walter Mathews and Lily.

Ive got Henry Vincent on 1881 now,but cant find a marriage so dont know who Rhoda was.

My own feeling is that such a small grouping together are likely to be related in some way,but the lack of documents makes it really difficult,nel.

[Steve G]

Hard for me to conjecture, Nel. For a start, I'm not looking at what you are, see? I have a vile 'connection' and so can't just flick open a census and have a blimp.

 Vince Smith would be ye man on such finer detail. Ye dealing with 110% Romany Gypsys here. My people 'Travelled as Gypsys', but I'd be damn wary of pronouncing them Romany. I'm perfectly open about saying they were of a 'lower class'. So, what I know might not relate to the more structured ways of the type you're handling. Does that make sense 

 Saying that; I believe there was (is) a tendency for 'friends' to stick together. And these friendships often amounted to extended families anyway. The ultimate person to tell ye would be someone directly connected with one of the families ye dealing with but, like Vince, still with their finger on that pulse.

 Every bugger I ever had to turn to has died out now, see? So I'm really in much the same boat as you. Scratching about for old links and clues 

[nelwild]

Thanks Steve,ive had some contact with Vince,he told me the Vinsons were Vincents,ill try and contact him again,nel.