Author Topic: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby  (Read 21844 times)

Offline gemini250554

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 00:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi Garen, I have messaged you before, years ago now. I have learnt much more about my family tree since then.  I do believe me and Shaz share ancestors but I have a problem with Abraham, my dad is still alive, he was born in 1920, his father was named Alfred Sherriff, born Burton-on-trent Staffs.  My dad tells me his grandad's name was Abraham who was married or not, to Maria.  Alfred was born approx 1894, I can't find a Abraham who fits in with this.  Any help would be appreciated.  According to Shaz's family tree I am a descendant of Matilda Sherriff but she is on my grandmothers side and not my grandfathers side, I am totally confused.
Sherriff, Smith, Holland,
Uttoxeter, Worcs, Staffordshire, Midlands.

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Offline Garen

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 00:54 GMT (UK) »
Hello Julie

I think if you have Romany ancestors you have to accept a certain state of confusion! Every time I think I've pinned something down, something comes along to contradict it. Names changed and varied so much, families intermarried, friends called each other brother... etc. etc. :-)

I have an Alfred Sherriff in my tree, born 1892 in Uttoxeter, grandson to Joseph Sherriff (Abraham's brother). There's also Alfred William Sherriff, grandson of Abraham through Matthew Sherriff.

Abraham married Delilah/Delia Smith in 1871, though I think he was also married to a Coralina Boswell. I have Matilda Sherriff married to Isaiah Holland (1874).

There is another Abraham Sherriff - I think - who was the son of Hope Sherriff (another of Abraham's brothers) and Trinity Boyling.

I've just seen your avatar photo of Phyllis Holland, who I do have on my tree (from the 1891 census return for Isaiah and Matilda). My ggg-grandparents, Joseph and Eliza Sherriff, were witnesses to the marriage of Isaiah and Matilda.

- Garen
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

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Offline gemini250554

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 01:26 GMT (UK) »
Yes, Phyllis Holland was my ggrandmother, I  did find the Alfred Sherriff you talk about,  but if my dad is right he was born in Burton and not Uttoxeter.  It certainly looks like we are related then as Matilda m Isaiah Holland is also in my tree.  Many thanks for your help.

Julie
Sherriff, Smith, Holland,
Uttoxeter, Worcs, Staffordshire, Midlands.

Offline flumpit2

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 13:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,sorry iv not been on here for abit.Iv kinda run out of steam on the Sherriff tree at the moment so been havin a break from it.
Garen,i think it was my uncle that got in touch with you (my auntys husband Roger).You have a great website,my trees on ancestory.Great newspaper clippings,i wouldnt even know where to start.Any tips would be greatly apprechiated!!!

Julie,in the Sherriff family many of the people named there kids after their siblings,so you will find there are probaly quite afew Abrahams etc.Its just trial and error in finding the right one.As Garen said,they changed names & intermarried,anyone older was called uncle & anyone the same age was brother or sister.Also sometimes they were born in one place but not registered until in another place or sometimes the births were registered in several districts.The Romanys of yonder deffinatly didnt make it easy for us to find them etc,lol!!!
I just wish my grandad was still alive to ask.
Shaz xxx
SHERRIFF,Warwickshire,Staffordshire,Derbyshire

Offline Garen

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 18 February 10 12:23 GMT (UK) »
Shaz - ah yes, it was indeed Roger - very nice and helpful and we shared some good info.

I mined the British Library 19th Century newspaper archives and got quite a few extracts relating to Sherriff names from the Derby Mercury (for Staffordshire). You can't always be sure someone with the same name is the exact person you're after, but sometimes it's obvious.

http://newspapers.bl.uk/blcs/

My ggg-grandfather and his son (Joseph and Alfred Sherriff) were done for highway robbery - stealing some shillings from a servant girl as she went to work through a park in 1880. That's the trouble with them appearing in newspapers - it's usually for bad stuff! But then again, it does give you more info. (I looked up census info for the girl, Lucy Rock - she was only 18 - if I ever come across her descendants I'll feel as though I'll have to apologise for my ancestors' terrible behaviour!)

Here's a few from my files:

The Derby Mercury 17 April 1895: A Derby Convict and his License - Levi Sherriff was charged with failing to report himself from July last, he being a convict on license. Detective-sergeant Payne said that on April 10th 1889 he was sentenced to five years’ penal servitude and five years police supervision on two charges of horse stealing. He was, however, liberated in May 1892, but a year afterwards he was convicted at this court for drunkenness and police assault. The Home Secretary revoked his license, but he was again liberated the following May from Portland prison. He came to live with his parents at 35 Gisbourne Street, and twice reported himself, but then left the town. On March 10th he was arrested at Chesterfield for horse stealing, but he was discharged at the County Sessions on Wednesday, when witness took him into custody. Had he kept out of trouble his term of imprisonment would have expired next May. Sherriff begged to be let off, saying that his father was on his death bed and he wanted to see him before he died. He failed to get work in Derby and went to the colliery districts. He got nine months taken off his sentence for saving an officer’s life in Portland prison. A prisoner struck one of the warders with a clay pick, and he (Sherriff) interfered. The Bench sentenced him to three months with hard labour, but did not revoke his license.

Levi Sherriff, who appears a few times (and is in Portland prison on the 1891 census), was the son of Perrin and Maria (it would be great to confirm when Perrin died, and if that was indeed their address in 1895). And speaking of Perrin, and probably his brother, Thomas...

The Derby Mercury 17 May 1865: Pern [sic] Sherriff and Thomas Sherriff, two travelling gipsies, were brought up in custody of police-constable Shaw, of Longford, charged under the Vagrant Act with being found camping by the wayside at Longford, not havng any visible means of subsistence. Defendants, on promising to remove their tents, were discharged.

Another Thomas, son of Hope...

The Derby Mercury 14 Mar 1900: Thomas Sheriff of Wirksworth, a private in the 3rd Batt. Sherwood Foresters, who appeared on remand, pleaded guilty to assaulting Henry Clayton on the 19th ult. Complainant stated that on the day named he was passing through the Market Place when Sheriff, without any provocation, struck him a number of blows in the face with his fist, knocking him down, when he became unconscious. Committed to prison for seven days with hard labour. Thomas Sheriff, the same defendant, also pleaded guilty to using violent language at Wirksworth on the 18th ult. He was quarrelling with next-door neighbours. Defendant’s father, a private in the 3rd Batt. Sherwood Foresters, stated that his son would probably be required to proceed to the front about the 15th of the present month. Fined 2s. 6d. and 17s costs or seven days.

I'm very intrigued by the name Clayton appearing here, as a few of the Sherriffs seemed to use that name sometimes. Hope has a few entries himself. Here's one for Isaiah Holland:

The Derby Mercury 20 Jul 1881: Isaiah Holland of Church Gresley, was charged with assaulting Arthur Clamp, licensed victualler, at Gresley, on 18th June last. It appeared the defendant came into the prosecutor’s house drunk, and on being refused drink assaulted him. The Justices said it was a most unprovoked assault, and sent him to gaol for 21 days. A charge of refusing to quit was withdrawn.

Best - Garen
Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-80 - http://www.angloafghanwar.info
Family research - http://www.garenewing.co.uk/family/

Offline flumpit2

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 18 February 10 14:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi Garen,
Thanks for the link to the newspapers archive,il have a look when i get a chance (son keeps goin on pc).The articles you typed out were very interesting and make the people seem more real somehow rather than just a name in history.sounds as if some of the Sherriffs were right scoundrels and there would probaly be a lot of descendants to apologise to,lol!!!
I have noticed that Sherriff is a hard name to find cus in searches it brings up the Sherriff of a county instead of someone with the surname Sherriff,lol.
To be honest,i havent got much info on the ppl in our family tree,alot of it is from either Henry Dry Bread or from ancestory.I honestly dont know where to look for info apart from ancestory,free bmd,free cen & family search.
 Id love to be able to put faces to names but unfortunatly my Grandad & his family never had any old pictures & have not been able to find any on romany genes etc..
Anyway,better go as son wants to go on facebook again.
Best Wishes
Shaz  :D
SHERRIFF,Warwickshire,Staffordshire,Derbyshire

Offline flyguy

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 28 March 10 14:31 BST (UK) »
hi we have never spoken before i think the phyllis smith nee  holland might be my gg grandads sister

Offline skyp

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 27 April 10 03:04 BST (UK) »
Keep plodding flumpit2. I was stuck for years before Gemini250554 contacted me, also putting me in contact with davesherriff. Both of whom are previously unknown family.  :)
We share the connection with my Gt Grandmother, Phyllis Smith nee Holland and little bits just fall into place slowly!
(PS hi to both cousins too) ;)
Richardson; Headley; Kingsland; Moore;
Brett; Whitmore; Miller; Gosling;
Smith; Holland
Carter; Rushton; Salt
Haberfield; Maggs; Marsh; Veale;
Chapple; Bond; Baker; Osborne.

Offline gemini250554

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Re: SHERRIFF family,Warks,Notts,Staffs,Derby
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 03 July 10 19:48 BST (UK) »
hi we have never spoken before i think the phyllis smith nee  holland might be my gg grandads sister

Please get in touch, We must be related...
Sherriff, Smith, Holland,
Uttoxeter, Worcs, Staffordshire, Midlands.