Chaloner family

[linda25g]

I'm interested too Dick, the John married to Margaret Williams is my 7th great grandfather, in 1720 (after his marriage) he was made freeman of Chester and described as 'son of Timothy'

What I'd like to know more about is the details of Timothy's dob, Timothy and Ann's marriage, and his parents, that have been posted above, hopefully mr pinkwhistle will return

[DickC]

Hi Linda,
Thanks for your message. I'm delighted that we've got some proof that Timothy is John's father. Can you post the link on this site?
As mentioned, we are trying to confirm the data supplied by Mr Pinkwhistle, who unfortunately has not responded to any of the concerns raised. Timothy was christened on 1 Jan 1695 at St Olave's, Chester.  Mr Pinkwhistle has John Chaloner and Debra as Timothy's parents. However, the John Chaleneur and Debra Brettargh to whom her refers were married on 23 Mar 1667. This is almost a thirty year gap between the marriage and the birth of Timothy (Debra appears to have been born on 8 Feb 1653 to father James Brettargh (1625 - 1665). This gap would make it most unlikely that she was the mother (she would have been aged 44 or 45 at the time of Timothy's birth). Not impossible, just unlikely.

However, as mentioned, if Deborah is Timothy's mother, this would be a most exciting development. I already have an outline tree taking Deborah back to the Brettarghs of Brettargh Holt, near Liverpool. This family goes back to the 13th/14th century with links to many other families.

As such, I am very keen to make sure that we get this link right and we really need Mr Pinkwhistle to confirm his sources.

[linda25g]

Hi Dick
it was John christened 1695 Timothy's son
Timothy as his father, could well have been born in 1660s so there wouldn't be a big gap
which is why I wanted Mr Pinkwhistle to explain his post

re John

23 Apr 1717 John Challinor of Holt, co. Denbigh, barber and Margaret Williams of Holt, spr.

26 Sep 1720-1 John s. of Timothy Chaloner, yeoman, and p. of Stephen Soane of Chester, periwigmaker.

[DickC]

Hi Linda,

Am trying to put together sources.

Have got your source re. John being granted freeman of City of Chester and being the son of  Timothy and patron of Stephen Soane (periwigmaker) http://www.mocavo.co.uk/The-Rolls-of-the-Freemen-of-the-City-of-Chester-Part-Ii-1700-1805-Volume-55/680824/57

However, have still not found your other source re. the 23 Apr 1717 with John's occupation of barber. Clearly the barber connection would link him with Stephen Soane- periwigmaker Could you send me the link.

I have not yet found it, but I think there may be a will. I'll see if I can pin it down.

[linda25g]

First name(s)   JOHN
Last name   CHALLINOR
Marriage year   1717
Marriage date   23 Apr 1717
Marriage place   CHESTER
Parish   St. Oswald
Spouse's first name(s)   Margerett
Spouse's last name   Williams
City or town   Chester
County   Cheshire
Country   England
Reference   item 3 p 84
Record set   Cheshire Diocese of Chester parish marriages 1538-1910
Category   Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection   Marriages & divorces
Collections from   Great Britain

[linda25g]

no will that I know of but he was administrator of his mother Ann's estate

[DickC]

Thank you Linda for the information sent.

However, there are still problems.

Mr Pinkwhistle had Timothy born in 1667 to John Chaleneur and Debra Brettargh. He also has Timothy as marrying a lady called Ann on 6 May 1703.

I now have no doubts that a Timothy Challinor, Yeoman, was the father of the John Challinor, who married Margaret Williams in 1717.

The problem is that I have now found a record of a Timothy Challinor baptised on 6 Dec 1666 in Huyton by Roby (very much Brettargh country) to a William Challinor. This William Challinor was baptised in Huyton by Roby on 29 Apr 1646.

There are at least two problems here. There is clearly at least one alternative father to the Timothy provided by Mr Pinkwhistle. The other problem is that we know John Challinor married Margaret Williams on 23 Apr 1717. If Mr Pinkwhistle is right and this John is the son of the Timothy Challinor, who married Ann in 1703, John would have aged 14 at best on his marriage to Margaret Williams.

Also , I don't think John would have received the Freedom of the city of Chester in 1721 at the tender age of 17 or 18. That doesn't make sense. As a barber (presumably a well respected one and possibly a wig maker as well), he would have had to have gone through his apprenticeship and trading independently before any such honour would be given.

Given the date of his marriage and the honour of Freeman, the earlier baptismal date of 1 Jan 1695 to father William would be much more likely., ie 22 when married, and 26/27, when he received the Freedom of the City and even that age would be good going to be honoured as a Freeman.

Again, we need Mr Pinkwhistle to confirm his sources.

[linda25g]

but John's baptism in 1695 states he was son of Timothy, so there definitely was a John Chaloner born in 1695 with a father Timothy and that Timothy must have married before 1695
so it therefore follows that there was a Timothy Chaloner married sometime before 1703

I'm fairly sure the confusion is because Timothy (father of John) was made freeman of Chester in 1703/04 by petiton and this document can be found in a book called Marton Marriages. Addenda Et Corrigenda. (Marriage) so some people are assuming it's a marriage record, whereas I've actually seen this 1703 record and it is a petition for freeman

[DickC]

I am not arguing that a John Challinor was born in 1695 to a father called Timothy.  The problem is "who were Timothy's parents. There is the Timothy born in 1665 to John Chandler and Debra Brettargh, and there is the Timothy baptised on 6 Dec 1666 in 'Huyton by Roby' to father William Challinor.
Attached is a ref: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J389-LYR
We need to be certain.
The excellent information you provided about Timothy being made a Freeman in 1703 could be the key. I recall that John's had information about his father when he was made a Freeman in 1721. If your petition of 1703 Timothy had such information, it would be a clincher. It would also help if we had a date for the marriage of Timothy to this Ann.