Author Topic: Brotherton/Thirsk  (Read 4004 times)

Offline eagar

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Brotherton/Thirsk
« on: Saturday 05 September 09 21:58 BST (UK) »
Hi
I am researching my gg uncle Frank Brotherton who died on 29 Sept 1918 in Flanders. He is buried in Underhill Farm Cemetary Belgium.(I have just recently visited). He was married to Ethel Thirsk of Hull. The 1911 census shows that there are 3 children with surname Thirsk; Walter, Hilda May and Frank B (they didnt marry until 1914) Are there any living relatives? Frank was in 10th battalion East Yorkshire Regiment and I am trying to track his army life.
If anyone has any thoughts please let me know.
Elaine

Offline Ecneps

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Re: Brotherton/Thirsk
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 06 September 09 02:05 BST (UK) »
Hello Elaine,

Welcome to Rootschat  :)

Have you seen the full 1911 image or just the household transcript?  What was her relationship to Frank Brotherton and marital status as stated on the form?  If she was married, it should show how long for.

On the Yorks bmd site http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/ there is a marriage for a John Thirsk to an Ethel Cotton in 1904 and a possible death for a John H Thirsk in 1905

If Ethel was previously married to John Thirsk that will be why the children have that surname.  If he had not died and perhaps she was waiting for a divorce to come through, even if some were Frank's children, they would possibly still have had the surname Thirsk, and that may account for the reason for their late marriage. 

Their 1914 marriage cert would help too, by showing if she had previously been married, or any of the children's birth certs should show parentage

Kind regards,
Barbara
 :)

`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK

Offline eagar

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Re: Brotherton/Thirsk
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 08 September 09 20:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Barbara
thank you, its a very interesting site! Ethel's father is John Wilson Thirsk and mother was Jane. She was born in 1890 but added a couple of years on the 1911 census putting herself 2 years older than Frank.  The 1911 census shows that there seems to have been some confusion with what was the right thing to put down! Frank is Head, Ethel is down as Housekeeper,(wife was originally put down then crossed out) and her youngest is only 2 months old and called Frank. The other 2 children are 5 and 2, the 2 year old called Hilda May (one of his sisters who died young was called this).  My suspicions are that they lived together and only got married in 1914 when he went to war. Frank was a Flour Miller. My next step is to see if they changed their name to Brotherton on the marriage or kept Thirsk as their name.
My next step is to keep looking on Ancestory and then to send off for a birth certificate of Frank Thirsk (the 2 month old)
thank you for replying to me, I am a little obsessed at the moment and spend most evenings looking at family history books.
kind regards
Elaine

Offline Ecneps

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Re: Brotherton/Thirsk
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 08 September 09 20:51 BST (UK) »
You'll be even more obsessed when you've spent some time on here with rootschatters  :D

I obviously got my supposition wrong about her having previously been married to a Mr. Thirsk.  On the 1911 census does it say if she is married or single, if married, how long for?

Do you have Ethel's birth cert giving her parent's names?  Can you definitely rule out the Cotton/Thirsk marriage then?

It might be worth posting on the Armed Forces board for Frank's service query

Barbara  :)
`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK


Offline eagar

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Re: Brotherton/Thirsk
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 10 September 09 09:20 BST (UK) »
Hi Barbara
On the 1911 census it said married, this was then crossed out and 'Housekeeper' put on instead. Frank was single, and the children were orginally daughters and son which was then crossed out and replaced with 'boarders'. So to me they are together but not married. I have just sent for their marriage certificate to see if any witnessess are family. I did look at the Cotton possibility, but it doesnt fit with any of Ethel's family records. I think once I have the marriage cert I will then send off for the youngest Thirsk child 'Frank B' to see if a father has beenput.
As Frank was listed as a Flour Miller on the 1911 census, he may have worked for Spillers (knocked down last year!) but there should be some employee records somewhere. onward and upward! Good idea re the Armed Forces board.
kind regards
Elaine :)

Offline eagar

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Re: Brotherton/Thirsk
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 10 September 09 09:21 BST (UK) »
Barbara
I forgot to mention just as a point of interest. My mum is called Rosalie Johnson and I see you have a very similar name on your wall! What a strange coincidence! :)
Elaine

Offline Ecneps

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Re: Brotherton/Thirsk
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 10 September 09 10:24 BST (UK) »
Hi Elaine,

When you get the certificates please would you come back and let us know the details?  Then we can see if we can help further.  I'd be very interested to know if indeed she had been married before, even if some of the children were Frank's  :)

Yes, it is a coincidence about your Mum's name, my avatar is a picture of my mother, but her father was Swedish hence the different spelling.

Good luck on the armed services board

Barbara
 :)
`There are two lasting bequests we can give our children -  One is roots - the other is wings`- Hodding Carter

Census and bmd information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Lincs & Yorks - SIVILLS PREDGEN    Norfolk - EBBS WHITEROD ZIPFELL       Sweden - JÖNSSON CRONBERG ANDERSSON      Yorks - SPENCE HIDE HIRD      Durham - DALKIN SELBY RENWICK

Offline North of Watford G

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Re: Brotherton/Thirsk
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 17 September 09 23:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Elaine,

I can't find his service record, it must not have survived the Blitz, so I have contacted an East Yorkshire Regiment specialist and just waiting for so information to come through.

Cheers Roger. ;D

Offline North of Watford G

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Re: Brotherton/Thirsk
« Reply #8 on: Friday 18 September 09 18:48 BST (UK) »
 8)
Hi Elaine,

I think you have your info now on the Military section, but if not here is what i have now.

He was in the 3rd or Special Reserve Battalion, went to France 18/3/1915 and wounded April/May 1915 with the 2nd Battalion, he is on the casualty list of the Hull Daily Mail 21/9/1915, and would have been posted to the 10th upon recovery.

Cheers Roger.