Author Topic: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872  (Read 6904 times)

Offline RSMACL

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 22 September 09 11:11 BST (UK) »
To answer the queries posed in your various replies:
No, I don't think that the "Art Union' voyage is my Catherine.  The later one with sister Elizabeth seems to fit better.  No I don't have Margaret's marriage cert. but will get it.
  I did wonder if MARGARET W. (from Talywain, Trevethin) actually knew Francis Richard PITCHFORD (of Kingsland, Herefordshire) before she came out - but if so why didn't they marry before sailing, and come as a couple; or why didn't they travel on same boat? Quite a few twigs of the Pitchford family line are living in Trevethin, Abersychan, Bedstone, Bucknell, Clun, Abertillery, etc. so perhaps they were known to each other.
Jacobs trips from Mauritius on CJS - both Mrs. Jacobs are too young, at 33 (1898) and 43 (1902), as my Catherine was born in 1843.  The two entries for Mr. N. could be Nathaniel, first born son of Charles/Betsy Jacobs - although he wasn't listed as partner, he still could have been working for the firm. No-one has been able to give me any information about him, apart from his marriage and child, but he is definitely not My Mr. N.
Charles Jacobs commenced business in 1856 in Gawler-town, Adelaide, and later one son Samuel Joshua (who was a solicitor) remained in Adelaide to head the S.A. branch; other four sons came to Melbourne and set up at 9 Queen St. to run the business from there.  The firm were importers, and at one stage were said to be the biggest sugar importers in Australia at that time.  Charles/Betsy (nee Joshua) had eleven children. 
N. & Catherine Jacobs went to Curepipe, Mauritius and managed the firm's tea and sugar plantations, and also 'The Family Hotel'.  They exported to Australia, Sth.Africa, China and Britain, and had agencies in various countries.  I have info. from an old out-of-print book "Mauritius Illustrated" which has a paragraph abt. the firm and photos. of their sugar warehouses on the docks at Pt. Louis.
XX  I have found a Catherine Jacobs on a Census in England - in 1881
at Lower Grangetown, Cardiff, district of Cantor -
at No.73 ...? William Morris, head, Amelia wife, David Jones unm. 32, Coal-trimmer and foreman; Catherine Jacobs, Aged 32, Marr., Lodger, born Newport, M/mthshire (no trade or job listed) - could be her, as one of her brothers John Wilkinson ended up living in Cardiff, and died there in 1904, buried Roath Cem., Cardiff.  Also the David Jones could be a cousin (through C.'s mother).
I did find a marriage on Free BMD of a Cath. Wilkinson, District Newport Pagnall, Vol. 3a, Page 613 Sept., 1861.  (only 18 yrs.??? too young to be Catherine?).
Thanks Krisesjoing for all your research - I should have mentioned that the family is listed as Wilkins in earlier Censuses.  I think the 1841 Census that Catherine Cooper is not connected.  If you look at the actual form, there are a lot of names of course, and nothing to suggest that Catherine Cooper is living at same premises as the Wilkins.  She is 'Indep." and in amongst other names not connected.   Everyone on Census lives at Talywain, which is where the Commercial Inn and the Wilkins(ons)  were situated.
MARGARET W.'s date of birth is 6 June, 1847, Francis Richard P. 28 Oct. 1839.

Offline krisesjoint

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 22 September 09 11:31 BST (UK) »
  I think the 1841 Census that Catherine Cooper is not connected.  If you look at the actual form, there are a lot of names of course, and nothing to suggest that Catherine Cooper is living at same premises as the Wilkins.  She is 'Indep." and in amongst other names not connected.   Everyone on Census lives at Talywain, which is where the Commercial Inn and the Wilkins(ons)  were situated.

Sorry Ruth but Catherine COOPER is the head of that particular house. You will see the double line on the last person in the previous house (David Thomas) - this signifies end of that house and then the single line in front of Catherine's name. This signifies a new house. Double lines after Richard Wilkins - End of house. Single line signifying start of next house Mary Williams. It is not just a list of names all at Talywain the premises are defined. Catherine Cooper is the head of the house where the Wilkins family are living.

Sorry I still see no reason to believe Catherine was in Adelaide at all but will check the passenger lists when I am next at the library. I am still seeing nothing to tell me your Catherine was in SA - At this stage we do not even have ages for these girls  ??? - you just seem to have jumped from one arrival in SA to another. Is there ANY reason at all to believe Catherine was ever in Adelaide?

Good luck with the certificate.

Kris
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Offline cando

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 23 September 09 00:23 BST (UK) »
Ruth thank you for posting the photos of Woodclyffe  You definitely have more patience than I have.  Lovely home.

Kris did ask if you had the marriage certificate for Margaret and Richard and it may help to ascertain whether or not Catherine was ever in SA ie if she was a witness.

There is an item in the Biographical Index of South Australians for Charles JACOBS and family.  You may be aware of BISA and if not, it is a major biographical work containing approximately 100,000 entries of South Australians who were born or arrived in the colony during this period.  It is not 100% accurate and there are errors and omissions but an excellent resource to begin one's research in SA.  If you would like it I will post it.

You mention Nathaniel JACOBS.  He died in London on 22 Jun 1909.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?searchTerm=nathaniel+jacobs
However I can't find a registration on free bmd.

The item has not been processed but the text is legible enough to note his name and parents Charles and Elizabeth.

You may like to search just using Charles JACOBS as there a number of family notices for the marriages of his children and his death notice.

My thoughts are that it may have been a 2nd marriage to the elusive N JACOBS.  I have searched for a JACOBS marriage to spouse given name Catherine with nil result.

Is it worth contacting your Mauritian contact again seeking burial records?

Cheers
Cando 
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Offline krisesjoint

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 23 September 09 00:52 BST (UK) »
Hi Ruth,

As to Woodclyffe and yes Cando it certainly is a lovely home, I feel you must make it a priority to look into the ownership of these premises. You are very lucky to know the name of of the property and its location so it shouldn't be too difficult to track down the ownership of the property in the early 1900's. I feel this and this alone is the most likely way to ascertain Catherine's Husbands name.

You mention having a sick husband which I am sure must make life a little more difficult, ( I have the utmost admiration for those caring for ailing loved ones) but given your posts elsewhere, the problem appears to be an ongoing one. Perhaps there is a family member of friend who could sit with hubby thus  allowing you to shoot into the city and check the details. If not the government are very good to carers and I am sure who be more than happy to allow a little respite time to you. If your health or mobility could also be a problem perhaps a loved one could access the records for you. If all else fails you may need to pay a researcher to do it for you.

We are just not getting anywhere with this. Both Cando and myself and no doubt other members have been through it from every angle we can think of to no avail. We probably know as much as you do about Charles Jacobs, his family and company but it has not helped us turn up anything on Catherine or her husband.

I really feel the ownership of Woodclyffe in the early 1900's is the key and you must set it as a priority to check or have these records checked.

All the best.......Kris  :)
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Offline cando

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #22 on: Wednesday 23 September 09 02:02 BST (UK) »
This may be helpful.

Woodclyffe Cottage - 598 Esplanade, Mt Martha

Woodclyffe Cottage was built in 1863 for John Connell, a well known Mornington resident. He sold the house to Richard Shann in 1870 who carried out improvements to the 6 room cottage and property. In the mid 1870's Sir Francis Murphy, a pastoralist and first speaker of the Legislative Assembly of Victoria, purchased the cottage. It was on 14 acres and the cottage was now 8 rooms. Sir Francis purchased a parcel of land adjoining Woodclyffe making the property 26 acres. Alfred Tolhurst, a stock broker purchased the house in 1908 and it remained in the Tolhurst family until the late 1970's. Edward Tolhurst, a son of Alfred subdivided the land in the 1970's.

and

http://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/ahdb/search.pl?mode=place_detail;place_id=103244

and item from Argus Thursday 25 Oct 1906 and probably identical to the snippet you have from the Age
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9643178?searchTerm=woodcliffe+auction

It would appear that if Catherine did purchase the property at auction in 1906 it was re-sold in 1908 to Alfred Tolhurst.

The local council should be able to help you if they hold the Rate Books for the period.
http://www.mornpen.vic.gov.au/

Alternatively you will need someone to do a title search.


Cheers
Cando

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Offline krisesjoint

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 06:50 BST (UK) »
Hi Ruth,

nothing much to report from the passenger lists I am afraid.

I could find no sign of Margaret arriving in SA, nor of any of them leaving SA

Passenger List from the ART UNION arriving 22 Aug 1864

WILKINSON Cathe, single  aged 19 a servant from Monmouth

Passenger List OCEAN CHIEF arriving 7 Apr 1864

WILKINSON Cathe single aged 21 a servant from Monmouth
WILKINSON Eliz single aged 18 a servant from Monmouth

Cheers Kris  :)
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Offline judb

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 09:45 BST (UK) »
Free BMD has these two births, both registered at Pontypool which fit nicely (give or take a year or so) with the two Wilkinsons on the OCEAN CHIEF

Wilkins Catherine, June qr, 1842
Wilkins Elizabeth, Dec qr 1843,

Additional info: IGI shows baptism of Catherine WILKINSON 18 Sep 1842 at Trevethin, parents JohnWILKINSON and Margaret

However IGI also shows an Eliza WILKINS baptised 1 Mar 1840, Trevethin.   ???

(By the way Newport Pagnell is near Milton Keynes - a long way from Newport in Monmouthshire)

Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline RSMACL

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 13 October 09 09:54 BST (UK) »
Any sign of Margaret maybe arriving in Fremantle, Western Aust?  Original family  diary says she arrived in W.A . age 16, married in Sth.Aust. 17 yrs. (but other parts of this diary I have proved to be incorrect, so I am not depending too much on it).

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Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 15 October 09 05:02 BST (UK) »
You might be getting fed up with this family!!
If I could find out when Margaret W. came to Australia, it would help.  As mentioned in a family diary, she is supposed to have come to W.A. when 16 yrs. of age, and then married in Adelaide, in 1864.  (Diary has proved to be inaccurate in several instances!!)
I am coming more to the fact that the Wilkinsons and Pitchfords knew each other in Trevethin, Wales. 
I wonder where they all were - in 1861 Census?  Have looked under England, Wales, even Scotland - but no sign. 
I wonder also if that Catherine Cootham (Cotham) is my Catherine, with baby dau. Margaret.  Haven't been able to trace C.'s 'marriage' or birth of baby M. 
As you say, her marriage to N. Jacobs could be her second marriage?  No evidence of who this Catherine Cootham is, otherwise.
Thanks for clearing up my innocent remark about Catherine COOPER not being in family group - but you say, she is head of the household.  Could she be owner of property, which Wilkinsons were renting?