Author Topic: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872  (Read 6905 times)

Offline RSMACL

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #9 on: Monday 21 September 09 03:23 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all your trouble.
Looks like I will have to rethink many of my facts.
FIRST - I now think the C. Wilkinson who came on 'Art Union' is not correct one.
The second one you mention is quite possible, as Cath. had younger sister Elizabeth, b. 1845, so they could have come for M. wedding, and returned to Wales later.  Any indication on shipp. records of a return trip? 
Marg.'s husband was Francis Richard Pitchford who was born in Kingsland, Herefordshire 28 Oct., 1839 - I often wondered how he met Margaret.
I believe he came to Australia on  ship "Electric" with his brother Frank c. 1864.
(Sister - Elizabeth marr. Richard John Harper in Pontypool in ? c. 1867 (as their first child was born c. 1868).  Possibly Catherine was also m. in Wales, as you say.  I had looked previously but as I didn't know where her husb. was born, it was hard.  Found quite a few Jacobs families in Wales area.   Did find two marriages for a Catherine Wilkinson: Pontypool 11a 159 June 1867, and at Stockton 10a 125 but didn't find spouses.
SECOND: Maybe I was clutching at straws and the N. Jacobs who came on CJS was Charles' first son Nathaniel returning from trip to Mauritius, and not  'my' Jacobs at all.   I have been in touch with many different avenues, and have found quite a lot about the Jacobs and the four sons who were partners, and even the Australian Maritime Museum, who were most helpful and sent lots of paperwork.     Strangely the eldest Jacob - Nathaniel,   is not listed as partner in business, but maybe he had his own destiny to follow!   
Even the items on PRO listing N. Jacobs are not necessarily 'my' N. Jacobs.  and the Mrs. Jacobs don't give a Christian name, so could be wives of other partners.   (I am not able to go to the city and spend long hours looking at shipp. records at PRO, as have an ill husband.)
 The only connection with an 'N' in my case is the cutting re wedding, and cutting on June 6, 1908 re his return to Mauritius in May 1908 which stated in part: " Mr. N. Jacobs of Mauritius...returned to Mauritius on Wed. 17th May in the 'C.J.S.', a boat belonging to the firm of which Mr. Jacobs is a partner.........." 
Now, the name "Jacques" - this the name given to Mr. Jacobs  in a family diary, written by James Coultas, husband of Margaret/Richard Pitchford's daughter Margaret. M. met her husb. whilst on a trip to England with her aunt, (another of Catherine W.'s sisters - Annie (Oliver)).  The Coultas' came out to Australia during 1906-7, visiting Margaret's family at Mornington,  and visiting 'the Jacobs' on a number of occasions at 'Woodcliffe'.  Their dau., my cousin, has no knowledge of where the name "Jacques" originated......just muddies the waters a little.
Thanks for the info. re dissolution of partnership in C.J. & S.  I was aware of the four partners (sons) and just couldn't work out how N. could be a partner also.   Maybe the newspaper got it wrong.  Many of the connections of the original Jacobs (Charles & Betsy) either by marriage, and/or Betsy's siblings, etc. also had plantations in Mauritius, and I thought N. could be a son of one of these.  But no success there either!     
('Woodcliffe" is a Heritage listed property still standing, and is not far from our home address, and I gnash my teeth every time I pass - thinking 'where are you Catherine?!!)

Offline krisesjoint

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,029
  • Its my Party - I can eat cake
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #10 on: Monday 21 September 09 04:49 BST (UK) »
Ruth,

I am sorry I am having a really hard time following this at all. I have spent many hours hunting for these girls in Wales hoping to get a feel for them to no avail. No sign of them anywhere. When I was just about out of all possibilities I did finally locate them in Trevethin Monmouthshire Wales in 1851 - problem is they are the WILKINS Family - not the WILKINSON Family.  ???

HO107/2449 Folio 413 Page 16
Talywain
Trevethin


WILKINS John Head 40 Mar b Trevethin Monmouth Coal Miner
WILKINS Margaret Wife 34 Mar b Town Carmarthan
WILKINS John son 15 b Trevethin Coal Miner
WILKINS Richard son 11 b Trevethin Coal Miner
WILKINS Catherine dau 8 b Trevethin
WILKINS Elizabeth dau 6 b Trevethin
WILKINS Margaret Dau 3 b Trevethin
WILKINS Ann dau 1 b Trevethin

1841 same place

HO107/744/7 Folio 39 Page 21
Talywain
Trevethin


COOPER Catherine 65 Ind N (No not born in County)
WILKINS John 30 Collier Y (Yes Born in County)
WILKINS Margt 20 N
WILKINS John 5 Y
WILKINS Richard 2 Y

Sure this is your family  ???

Cheers Kris :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline cando

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,282
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #11 on: Monday 21 September 09 05:01 BST (UK) »
Oh dear.....and I had typed up quite a lot...well here goes...and hopefully some of it may be useful.

Catherine and Elizabeth WILKINSON were once again Assisted Passengers
64/3     Ocean Chief    7 Apr 1864     Pt Adelaide     Plymouth

Margaret WILKINSON is not listed as an Assisted Passenger.

I can only find the Electric arriving once in SA
65/9     Electric     24 Sep 1865     Pt Adelaide     London
On the above voyage were Elizabeth, Francis and William PITCHFORD.

Information from BISA
PITCHFORD Francis b. c1843 MON WLS.  Died after 1885.  Arrived 1865 Electric.  Occupation Blacksmith.  Lived Jamestown. Religion Protestant.
Married Elizabeth b. c1843 died by 1885  Children William [c1863-].

Richard did not travel with brother Francis.
Richard PITCHFORD is listed arriving on
64/2     Utopia     8 Feb 1864     Pt Adelaide     London

I doubt there would have been enough time for Richard to meet Margaret, form a relationship and arrange a marriage in time for sisters Catherine and Elizabeth to journey to Adelaide and arrive on 7 Apr 1864 ie if you think they travelled to SA for Margaret's marriage which took place on 3rd December 1864.  What was Margaret's date of birth ie at the moment we only know she was 17 years of age in Dec 1864.

I was hoping to see a photo of Woodcliffe after reading the description of the home when it was advertised in the Argus.  However it doesn't appear on the database......

http://vhd.heritage.vic.gov.au/vhd/heritagevic

As previously requests by Kris, do you have the marriage certificate for Margaret and Richard's marriage?

Cheers
Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline krisesjoint

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,029
  • Its my Party - I can eat cake
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #12 on: Monday 21 September 09 05:09 BST (UK) »
Now 1861 it does not matter what I try I cannot locate them

1871 an interesting entry and the family are now Wilkinson.

RG10/5334 Folio 49 Page 52
Commercial Inn
Commercial St
Trevethin


WILKINSON John Head 58 Mar b Trevethin Innkeeper
WILKINSON Margaret Wife 54 Mar b Town Caemarthan Innkeepers wife
WILKINSON Sarah A Dau 14 unm b Trevethin Innkeepers dau
COTHAM/COOTHAM? Catherine Visitor 28 Unm b Trevethin
COTHAM/COOTHAM? Margaret Visitor 18 months b Marrish Mon

Catherine's name is hard to read and it does say unmarried but born at the right time in Trevethin to be the daughter. Do not see this person in earlier census.

I also note you suggest Margaret is Margaret Jones so who is Catherine Cooper from 1841.

Is this Wilkins/Wilkinson family all the same family and where are they in 1861 whoever they may be?  
 
John and Margaret remain at the Inn and stick with Wilkinson after this time.

Most confusing.  :-\

Cheers Kris  :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline krisesjoint

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,029
  • Its my Party - I can eat cake
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #13 on: Monday 21 September 09 05:31 BST (UK) »
Births appear to be under either name

Richard WILKINSON Jun 1839 Pontypool 26 137
Catherine WILKINS Jun 1842 Pontypool  26 140 (As you mention Catherine born June 1/4 1842 I can only assume you knew this to be the case)
Elizabeth WILKINS Dec 1845 Pontypool  26 91
Margaret WILKINSON Sep 1847 Pontypool  26 129
Ann WILKINSON Jun 1850 Pontypool  26 171
Sarah Ann WILKINSON Mar 1857 Pontypool  11a 134

Kris

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline krisesjoint

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,029
  • Its my Party - I can eat cake
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #14 on: Monday 21 September 09 05:44 BST (UK) »
By the way it is Elizabeth who married in Jun 1867 11a 159 not Catherine. She married Richard John HARPER. They are living next door to John and Margaret in 1871

HARPER Richard J Head 39 b Trevethin Butcher
HARPER Elizabeth Wife 26 b Trevethin
HARPER Catherine Dau 2 b Trevethin
HARPER Charles son 1 b Trevethin

Kris  :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline RSMACL

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 22 September 09 08:15 BST (UK) »
Photos. of 'Woodclyffe", 1905 and 2006

Offline RSMACL

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 22 September 09 08:19 BST (UK) »
"Woodclyffe" 1905

Moderator Comment: image resized for easier viewing

Offline RSMACL

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 242
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Catherine WILKINSON/N. JACOBS m. poss. South Australia around 1872
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 22 September 09 08:22 BST (UK) »
Gee this is hard to do - took me over 2 hours to 'shrink' photos. then they wouldn't 'go'.  Can anyone advise how to attach.  Trouble every time.  As a consequence, the older photo. is large.  Whatever!!  Don't really know how I did it in the end!  Ruth