Author Topic: Bohemia WOOD 1715  (Read 3898 times)

Online Gadget

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Bohemia WOOD 1715
« on: Tuesday 22 September 09 10:56 BST (UK) »
Hi

I've just found this baptism in the Selattyn (Shropshire) Parish records:

October 25th 1715

Bohemia, the son of Abraham Wood, supposed King of ye Gypsyes, of ffroom, in Co. Somerset


Just out of curiosity does anyone know anything of this family?



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Offline krisesjoint

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Re: Bohemia WOOD 1715
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 24 September 09 02:03 BST (UK) »
What a a fascinating baptismal entry from that era Gadget.  ;D

some fascinating stuff here. Bohemia WOOD mentioned so looks like the same family also mentioned BOSWELL and FOWLER

they are referred to a vagrants but I wonder if this signifies a Romany background.

Quote
The victim recalled a group of thirty people, including 'young lads and girls' who were 'talking in a language unknown' to her.

It appears none were convicted.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/075n/   

Also noticed a William INGRAM who was described as a Gypsy proscecuted in another case.

I am moving this to Travelling People board. I feel any interest will come from that board, rather than the Somerset Board.  ;)

A lovely description of Abraham in

The Gypsy's Parson
In The Heart of Wales
Page 265

http://www.archive.org/stream/gypsysparsonhise00hallrich/gypsysparsonhise00hallrich_djvu.txt


Hope it is of interest.

Cheers Kris  :)

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Offline Steve G

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Re: Bohemia WOOD 1715
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 27 September 09 13:33 BST (UK) »
 " Talking in a language unknown to her. "  ;D

I should say so! I've listened to a recording, made in the early fifties. It was of the last remaining pair of Wood brothers still capable of speaking full on, 100% complete Welsh dialect Romani language.

 Completely fluent. Not a single word of english being needed. Total grammatical expression. It was mind bending!

 At that time, I could keep up with anything I ever heard a Gypsy say. But These boys? Forget it! I even played it to some Welsh Romani friends of mine. They, at least, wouldn't have been hampered by the strong, welsh accents.

 They fared no better than me! I remember the solid looks of concentration on their faces, as they tried to catch a word they recognised. Like me; They probably caught about two words out of a whole, long and rambling conversation!  :o

 So, there's a bit more about the ancient line of the Romany Wood family. Probably the last British Gypsys to have retained their complete and original language. Sadly, it went out with those two. Manfor and Hyuwell, I believe their names were?

 " Kaishannus kerivvess? "  8)

 
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

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Re: Bohemia WOOD 1715
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 03 October 09 18:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Steve  :)


This looks like the same family:


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,410229.0.html



Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline Steve G

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Re: Bohemia WOOD 1715
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 03 October 09 20:49 BST (UK) »
 Yeppers. That'll be them alright, Gadget. Probably the last family ever to have retained the complete (Welsh) Romani language.

 Unfortunately, a friend of mine went to see one of their sons, who reckoned he could still do it ~ Guy just talked rubbish  :( He'd lost it. And so we lost the true language with Manfor and Hewyl.

 That 'tape' is probably still out there, somewhere. I believe a company by the name of " FolkTracks " used to sell the cassette tape.

 Belter to listen to, it is. Ye may think ye know a bit, till these two leave ye straining ye ears and replaying and replaying bits, trying to work out why they both burst out laughing!

 Saying that; I never have read Sampson's " Dialect of the Welsh Gypsys ". Might have helped. They use slightly different word forms than we'd be used to, see? Then they had the full on inflection too. Proper Language, see?

 None of this, " Mandi jalled ", make it up as ye go along nonsense. They'd just express exactly what they meant; " Jaldom ". Sweet!  ;D
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

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Re: Bohemia WOOD 1715
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 03 October 09 20:53 BST (UK) »
Well, I still have a bit of Welsh so if you have any idea how I could get a copy, let me know - maybe my Welsh/Scottish/Irish roots might help   :-\ :-\ :-\

My lot got around a wee bitty  ;D


Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline Steve G

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Re: Bohemia WOOD 1715
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 03 October 09 21:38 BST (UK) »
 Frankly, Gadget; Your Googling would e as good as mine here  :( It must've been thirty odd years ago now. I'd imagine " FolkTracks " have long since vanished?

 I was given my copy ~ on cassette, which rather places it, no? ~ by one of englands leading experts on the Romani languages. It was part of a compilation he'd made up for me. Had, I believe it was; Charlie Scamp on there too. Only, obviously, he could only come up with bits and pieces of " Anglo Romani ". Something about " The jivels are ..... " doing something or other.

 The Welsh Romani bit was probably less than ten minutes. But, they were simply sat there, having a completely normal natter about what ever came into their heads. Not a single word of english was used throughout.

 Like I've said; They used certain word forms which were at variance with what even an Anglo Romanes speaker would be accustomed to. Thus, ye'd find yeself picking out some words. Others were a mystery. Many more were actually 'hidden' by both (Welsh) accent and the sheer torrent of speech.

 To give ye a tiny example ~ written rather phonetically, as I've forgotten so much now and can't be certain of what exactly they might have been pronouncing anyway. Also, so ye'll know the moment ye ever hear this 'tape'. I starts off with the following exchange:


 Kai shannus kerrivess?

'Pre o pani.

So tildom?

Tildann cushti matchi.

 :o Like I say; I reckon it'd take Samsons dictionary, and a good ear, to sort out what they were on about. And I've broken up the words and seperated them for ye, there. These two guys just rattle it off so that each sentence has no, apparent, punctuation. Sounds like " Kaishannuskerrivess? ". Murder!
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')

Offline Steve G

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Re: Bohemia WOOD 1715
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 04 October 09 01:05 BST (UK) »
 Here ye go, Gadget!   ;)

From 1975 FOLKTRACKS started to make ethnic recordings more widely available on cassette for the benefit of students and specialist researchers. The original field recordings,made on high quality portable open-reel tape equipment in the 1950s, have now been transferred to DAT (Digital Audio Tape).

The archive and the unique TRADITIONS LIBRARY are computer-indexed and are open to the public (by prior appointment). For further details contact: Peter Kennedy, The Heritage Institute, 16 Brunswick Square, Gloucester, GL1 1UG. Tel: 01452-415110

 That's all openly on line. So the phone numbers not being hidden by anyone.
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')