German Pork Butchers in Britain

[johnbhoy]

Hi,    It seems that I am a descendent of a German Pork Butcher. John Frederick Dreher of Derby. I am visiting Derby in October and will be checking out the Silk Mill. Most of my Derby female family members worked there. My grandfather was a Gunston and lived in Eagle Street. John Dreher was his Grandfather. I'd love to know more about him.

rules

Good Morning Whispey and you're very welcome to the thread. As per Roots Chat Forum rules, you have to post 3 times, so 2 more posts are required 

[Haichem]

Thanks to SwissGill and others for their welcome earlier in the month when I posted the following on the general forum.  Also thanks to Gill for the extra information re the Steeges and Lindenbergers of Bradford - another piece of the jigsaw/web!  Will repeat my original post for those who may not have picked it up before:

Both my great grandparents were part of the German Pork butcher migration from Wurttemburg:  Christian Alexander STEIN (Kunzelsau/Castleford) and Margaret HAFFNER (Hohebach).  As far as I know Alexander Stein was the only one of his siblings to come to England, but all of Margaret's siblings came and settled here, including their parents in retirement.  All the first generation of Haffners in England married into other German families (FUCHS, NICKLAS, RUMMLER, MOGERLEY).  Before the marriage of Alexander and Margaret (in Wakefield, WRY) she was working for the SCHWAB family in Wakefield, and Alexander worked for a STEEGE family in Bradford.  After their marriage they opened a Pork Butcher's shop in Castleford, where Alexander eventually built his own premises - still there today, but now boarded up and looking very sad - not as I remember it in my childhood, when it was a thriving shop, eventually sold to Farm Stores (started by Mr ZIEGLER).  Maybe some of these names will strike a chord with someone?

Also while checking the database, I see that there is an entry for a NIKLAS marrying an ANDRASSY, living in Wakefield.  I well remember Andrassy's as Wakefield is my home town.  One of the HAFFNERS (Burnley) married a NIKLAS (see above)  - Friederike Haffner to Charles Niklas in Wakefield 1884.

Helen

[Haichem]

Following my previous post (No. 487) I have been looking at the database, and there seem to be 3 entries for Alexander STEIN, which seem to be for the same man and could perhaps be combined.  Also I can offer some additional information, but not being the original submitter, think I cannot do this - Histres, can you do this?

Name should be Christian Alexander STEIN, dob 19 January 1858, Kunzelsau, death 23 May 1934, Castleford, WRY.  Parents:  Johann Christof STEIN, dob 26 September 1819 Kunzelsau, death 6 November 1874, Occupation:  Bookbinder.  Susanna Sofie Margarethe BREITINGER dob 13 November 1820 Kunzelsau, death 18 October 1893 Kunzelsau.

Places of abode:  1 = Kunzelsau, 2 = Bradford WRY 1881 Census, working for STEEGE, 3 =  1882-1911 Carlton Street, Castleford, WRY, 4 = Monk Fryston, WRY, 5 = Leake Street, Castleford, WRY.

Comments:  Photographs available for Christian Alexander STEIN, Margaret HAFFNER, Johann Christof STEIN, Susanna BREITINGER.

I would like to be listed as a Researcher for this family, but do not know how to do this.  Am finding the website quite difficult to navigate initially, but hopefully will get the hang of it in time!

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help - Helen

[Berlin-Bob]

I've removed the (technical) discussion about the DBSIG from this topic and created a new topic

Topic: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=665952.0

in the Reference Library board.  Please add your comments there.

Thanks,
Bob

[Berlin-Bob]

I've removed the (technical) discussion about the DBSIG from this topic and created a new topic

Topic: DBSIG: German Pork Butchers in Britain - who can change it ??
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=665952.0

in the Reference Library board.  Please add your comments there.

Your feedback is important, please join in !
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=665952.msg5142419#msg5142419

Bob

[arky101]

Histres,

Thanks to your posting I have traced my Ebert ancestry to the Dorrmenz area (Henry Frederick Ebert (Heinrich Freidrich), born 1791.  The Stuttgart Archives have provided me with a copy of the Pfarramt Lendsiedel, Fam.Reg.II Dörrmenz, s.43 as well as s.44 a page for Heinrich Freidrich's brother Johann Georg Ernst Ebert.  My contact at Stuttgart indicates that Heinrich Freidrich's grandfather Johann Andreas Ebert was from Bächlingen and I have noticed your posts to Katiesummers and photographs.  My questions are:

1. Is there a family connection between the Künzelsau, Bächlingen and Dörrmenz Eberts?  I would presume this to be through Johann Andres Ebert or his father?
2. How does the Johann Andres Ebert posted in the picture of the mill stone fit in?
3. I cannot seem to translate the names of children 3 & 11 (same name reused) on Pfarramt Lendsiedel, Fam.Reg.II Dörrmenz, s.43.  Do you have them translated?

I can add that there is a family relationship between the pork butchers Weidner and the Ebert.  Pfarramt Lendsiedel, Fam.Reg.II Dörrmenz, s.44 lists the family of Johann Georg Ernst Ebert who is the older brother of Heinrich Freidrich.  Three of his children appeared to have immigrated to England for various periods of time, and they can be found living with and apprenticing with both Johann Andreas Weidner and Georg Michael Weidner in the 1841 & 1851 UK Census data, and mentioned as nieces and nephews.  They are child 5 Georg Heinrich (anglicised to Henry), child 8 Georg Michael (anglicised to George), and child 7 Maria Magdaline.  I am uncertain as to where Georg Michael went after the 1851 UK Census, but Georg Heinrich marries Mary Ann Thompson in 1859, they both appear in the 1861 UK Census, and then disappear ... perhaps they went back to Germany.  Maria Magdaline stays in England, marries another Wurrtemberg pork butcher Martin Gehringer in 1853 and can be followed with Martin up to the 1871 UK census.

I hope you can help me with my questions and appreciate the other info posted.

Cheers Jim

[SwissGill]

Hello Jim

Welcome to the pork butchers population.

This thread has been dormant since last September and it would be good if it were revived.

Jim, I see from the database for pork butchers that you are an ardent seeker - everything I found about Eberts, you had, too.

I am also happy to see that you know "something" about databases, 

I hope that some of the pork butcher descendants will add again to this thread.

What I know of "our" forefathers, is that they were bird fanciers, dog owners, maybe racing or show. They also had many a rift with the local police, councils, etc. due to unjust scales, promises of marriages not fulfilled, fights, etc.

They did, on the other hand fill various posts in the local council, became teachers, extremely good athletes, i.e. in such sports as football, cycling, etc.

In my searches, I find various details about some of the entries and would like to add my findings, but cannot. Hence, I have to jot them down on sheets (not satisfactory), add them to my computer - better, but not ideal as at some stage, I would like to add them to the database, obviously but cannot without duplicating the entries.

Gill

[arky101]

Hi Gill,

Thanks for the welcome.  Since my previous post I have had to modify the familial connection between the Ebert and Weidner Pork Butchers in London.  The existing Weidner PBs in the database were too young and in the wrong places in England.

Instead I have added 2 new entries to the PB database, ID:1952 WEIDNER, John Michael, and ID:1954 WEIDNER, John Andrew, and annotated the familial relationship to the nieces and nephews of PB database ID:160 EBERT, Heinrich Friedrich in them.  These are the children of Heinrich Friedrich Ebert's brother and I believe the family connection stems from the marriage of a Johann Georg Weidner to Heinrich Friedrich's eldest sister Maria Margareta Ebert in Oberaspach, Wurrtemberg on Aug 2, 1808.

I too debated the issue of creating duplicate entries and have decided on a 2 pronged approach.

Approach 1: If the initial DB entry has only bare bones info, I go ahead and create a duplicate with my more detailed information.  Obviously I won't do this if I have only minor shreds of evidence to add.  At a future point my idea is to have the initial entry merged with the detailed entry and the database administrator can realign the ID #.

Approach 2:  If I have information to add to an existing entry I use the Personal Messenger to send them a message with my additional information, and ask them to add it.  I have been successfully doing this with Histres for the Heinrich Friedrich Ebert database entry and if you look at it you will find more information now.

However some of my other messages have yet to be answered and if after a reasonable wait period I plan to send a message to the database administration to either add the data and/or transfer the file to me for updating.

My research is all ancestor based, and sourced as best as possible.  If I make an assumption I tell folks this in the comments, and I do not plan to create PB database entries unless I have a decent amount of information to impart.  While doing my research I have been paying attention to other names in wills, census and marriage records and actually have plans to add several more PBs to the database, showing links to my family interests.  By doing this I hope to spark more interest in adding to the database.

I also make extensive use of the comments field to add significant details such as exact DOB, DOD, date of British Naturalization, In-Laws, will executors etc to provide the research links for future and current users.

Also, check out my new entry for PB ID:1953 GLOCK, Johann Jakob Andreas, the son-in-law of PB ID:1954 WEIDNER, John MIchael.

Cheers ... Jim

[SwissGill]

Hi Jim,

I do simarly to you.

If I find far more information  than offered in the database, I set up a new entry. I would count on this that the original entry owner would eliminate his/her entry.

Unfortunately, a lot of pork butcher descendants do not feel as though they are supposed to be involved.

May I take this opportunity to say that you are all involved. Please join in.

Gill