Author Topic: john king cavan?  (Read 2628 times)

Offline doch

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 414
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
john king cavan?
« on: Friday 02 October 09 20:19 BST (UK) »
hi all.
i am trying to find the birthplace of my g/g/grandfather john king. he was married in glasgow in 1860.
he is listed as 20 years old. his father is listed on his marriage and death certs as felix king. i can find no info on john before he left ireland for glasgow. i entered felix king into the griffiths name search and got three matches. the three are in cavan. 1.drumroosk,2.main street belturbet,3.weavers row belturbet.

if any one is researching the king name i would be glad to share my info with them as i have all of the glasgow side of the family researched from johns marriage,to the present day.

                 regards. doch.
docherty glasgow/ireland
king glasgow/ireland
burns glasgow/ireland
gillon/sligo    mcaffrey/fermanagh
young glasgow/ireland

Offline Peter Kennedy

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: john king cavan?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 14:55 BST (UK) »
Hi, I'm also researching Kings in Ireland (and maybe Scotland).  My great grandmother is Anne King b around 1840s-1850s in Cavan.  She married Cornelius Kennedy and raised a family of 11 in Leitrim. It is possible that her father was Felyx (sp?) King and her mother also an Anne, as he 1841 census lists a King family in the townland of Coragh Glebe in the parish of Killashandra, County Cavan. My great-grandmother Anne King, then 2, had two siblings -- Mary, 9, and Thomas, 5. No John, unfortunately, though there could well be a cousin...That's all i have. 

 For what it's worth 23&Me tells me that my DNA roots are in both Ireland and Scotland (Glascow, in particular).

Offline gaffy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,908
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: john king cavan?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 16:35 BST (UK) »
Hi, I'm also researching Kings in Ireland (and maybe Scotland).  My great grandmother is Anne King b around 1840s-1850s in Cavan.  She married Cornelius Kennedy and raised a family of 11 in Leitrim. It is possible that her father was Felyx (sp?) King and her mother also an Anne, as he 1841 census lists a King family in the townland of Coragh Glebe in the parish of Killashandra, County Cavan. My great-grandmother Anne King, then 2, had two siblings -- Mary, 9, and Thomas, 5. No John, unfortunately, though there could well be a cousin...That's all i have.  [EMAIL DELETED]

For what it's worth 23&Me tells me that my DNA roots are in both Ireland and Scotland (Glascow, in particular).

Hello and welcome, just to mention that my experience is that posting your email address in public like this isn't allowed on RootsChat for reasons of privacy protection.  Instead, folk wanting to contact you privately can use the website's 'Personal Messages' system, albeit they must make a number of posts (three I think? hopefully someone will keep me right) before being allowed to use it.  Just saying like.

Anyhow, the following may be relevant to you. The RootsIreland website has a couple of transcribed 1865 RC church marriage records for an Anne King which I think refer to the same couple, I haven't been able to find the original images on the NLI RC parish website, so that's my big caveat.

One transcript cites the groom as Cornelius Kenedy, the other record cites him as Connor Kennedy.  Cornelius in Ireland was/is sometimes used as a translation of the name Conchubhar, which then reads across to Connor. And the witnesses in each marriage record are the same, so I'm going with it.     

Combining the transcribed records... in the RC chapel of Templeport on either 8 July 1865 or 21 August 1865, a Cornelius/Connor Kenedy/Kennedy married an Anne King, the witnesses were a Peter Honeyman/Hunnyman and Margaret Smith. The groom was a farmer, a bachelor of full age, the son of a farmer called Connor (or maybe also Cornelius) Kennedy, and his address was recorded as 'Liscroody'. The bride's address was Ballyhelan / Ballelenan in the 2 records, her father in one was stated as Hugh King (deceased).

I wondered about these townlands, but couldn't immediately conclude anything:

https://www.townlands.ie/leitrim/carrigallen/drumreilly/cloverhill/lisgruddy/

https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/clanmahon/ballymachugh/ballymachugh/ballyheelan/

So, open to the floor to help you.  :)


Offline Peter Kennedy

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: john king cavan?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 18:09 BST (UK) »
Gaffy, is it?  Thank you for your help -- first the warning about giving away my e-mail. Dumb and naive on my part, and second for the Kennedy/King data.  You've hit pay-dirt on my behalf. Anne (King) and Connor (Cornelius) Kennedy are indeed my great-grandparents. The Cornelius (Connor/Con) Kennedy father cited is my great-great grandfather, born circa 1790. What's especially valuable are townland leads as well as the names of the witnesses, and the deceased father, Hugh King. The "Lisgroody" you listed is actually Lisgrudy, Leitrim, where my Kennedy worked the land for at least a century, though my own grandfather and many of his siblings emigrated to America in the late 1800s. I can't thank you enough for pulling this together for me. I'm regularly on a GEDMatch/Facebook Cavan genealogy site and I've yet to come up with the kind of hard information you've provided. So thank you.


Offline Kiltaglassan

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,539
  • Seven Sisters mountain range in Co Donegal
    • View Profile
Re: john king cavan?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 18:53 BST (UK) »
Not yet linked, but here's the marriage in 1865.

Connor KENNEDY to Anne KING on 21st August 1865
SR District/Reg Area   Bawnboy
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1865/11583/8262167.pdf


Combining the transcribed records... in the RC chapel of Templeport on either 8 July 1865 or 21 August 1865, a Cornelius/Connor Kenedy/Kennedy married an Anne King, the witnesses were a Peter Honeyman/Hunnyman and Margaret Smith. The groom was a farmer, a bachelor of full age, the son of a farmer called Connor (or maybe also Cornelius) Kennedy, and his address was recorded as 'Liscroody'. The bride's address was Ballyhelan / Ballelenan in the 2 records, her father in one was stated as Hugh King (deceased).


Good finds, gaffy
Anne King's residence looks like Ballylelan. In Templeport C.P. there's a townland called Bellaleenan.....maybe it's it.
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/tullyhaw/templeport/ballymagauran/bellaleenan/

PK,
Are these your relatives in the 1911 census? If so, 12 children born, 10 still living.
Residents of a house 1 in Lisgruddy (Cloverhill, Leitrim).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Leitrim/Cloverhill/Lisgruddy/645972/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002680687/

Researching: Cuthbertson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Australia; Hunter – Co. Derry; Jackson – Co. Derry, Scotland & Canada; Scott – Co. Derry; Neilly – Co. Antrim & USA; McCurdy – Co. Antrim; Nixon – Co. Cavan, Co. Donegal, Canada & USA; Ryan & Noble – Co. Sligo

Offline Peter Kennedy

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: john king cavan?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 25 May 21 21:40 BST (UK) »
Thank you! They are indeed my relatives, which we discovered years ago when Ireland digitized the records. When my brother visited Leitrim a few years back, he discovered the birth records of the other siblings who emigrated, including my grandfather Cornelius Kennedy. My father (b. 1912 in NYC) had vague recollections of aunts who resided in the greater NYC area. But he was never aware of the extent of his Kennedy line. He never knew of the King side of the family, so all this is great information for filling out the family tree.

Offline gaffy

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,908
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: john king cavan?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 26 May 21 02:33 BST (UK) »

... Anne King's residence looks like Ballylelan. In Templeport C.P. there's a townland called Bellaleenan.....maybe it's it.
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/tullyhaw/templeport/ballymagauran/bellaleenan/


Kiltaglassan, your suggestion of Bellaleenan in Templeport civil parish does indeed look much more likely.
 
Just to offer up some speculation for 'Peter Kennedy'... look at the following 1873 marriage record. Given the bride's address and her father's name, I wonder if she (Bridget) was a sister of Anne King?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11288/8141135b.pdf

Griffiths Valuation for Bellaleenan has a print date of 1857 and shows that the townland only had a relatively few households - there's only one King listed and it is indeed a Hugh King, leasing just over 29 acres, simply enter the place name at the link below to see it:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

Below is a Tithe Applotment Books entry for the parish of Templeport showing a Hugh King with just over 17 acres in 'Ballyleenan', dated 1826 :
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625723/004625723_00511.pdf

I can see a transcript of a Templeport RC church burial/death record dated 8 January 1858 for a Hugh King of 'Ballilenan'.  There is also the following Templeport RC church funeral record for a 'Mrs King' of 'Ballyleenan' (left page, not the reference to Molly King at the top, it's the King reference further down that page, dated 27th February 1874):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634897#page/89/mode/1up

I haven't yet found a corresponding civil death record for the above 'Mrs King' (maybe fresh eyes can), but there is a possible matching entry (date wise) in the Will Calendars, a widow named MARY King of 'Ballyleelan' - see what you think:
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014891/005014891_00572.pdf

The following looks like a copy of Mary's will in the registers (right page in the link below), I hope you can make it out better than I can, I could swear I can see mention of two sons Hugh and James and a daughter Bridget, I can see no mention of a daughter Anne (maybe Anne was already provided for, having been married for a good number of years), however I can see reference to a 'Con Kennedy' as a signatory, so very interesting:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/wr/007604250_00427.pdf

There are also a number of Templeport RC church records for the surname 'King' on the NLI RC records website that look as if they mention variant spellings of Bellaleenan within them, in short, the records show that a Hugh King was baptised in 1840 to parents Hugh King and Mary Smith, that the son Hugh went on to marry a Bridget McGovern/Magauran in 1871 and they had a number of children in the 1870s and 1880s. Was Hugh junior maybe a brother of Anne King and the one mentioned in the will? You can see a summary of the baptisms at the link below, the originals can be viewed online in the NLI RC church records website - BTW, there are quite a few Kings in the more general surrounding area, the key factor for your Kings would seem to be that specific Bellaleenan address:
http://www.bawnboy.com/local-genealogy/baptisms/baptisms-1836-1902k-l.html


Edited to add: Incidentally, Hugh King of Bellaleenan (I assume senior) appears in several instances in the early to mid 1850s in the Ireland Petty Session Court Registers (available on the 'Ancestry' website), sometimes described as farmer, sometimes as Income Tax Collector or Poor Rate Collector (for the Bawnboy Union), most of the cases are to do with folk owing him money, there's one case where someone liberated a cow he had impounded, another case where he was seeking damages for cows straying on his land, no genealogical insights offered, but it adds some colour to the story if you get the chance to peruse. Who I think must be Hugh junior also crops up a few times in these Registers, from around the mid 1860s onwards, again the address is Bellaleenan.


Offline Peter Kennedy

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: john king cavan?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 26 May 21 18:09 BST (UK) »
More great detective work, for which I am very grateful. The Hugh Kings are all of one family, seems to me. I've not had a chance to go through it all in detail, but it also seems likely that Anne and Bridget were sisters. Bellaleenan looks to be the correct townland. I'll follow up on the links and report back on any "ahas." But you two have done the hard work for me!  Gratefully, Peter