Thornhill family Newcastle on Tyne

[Michael Dixon]

 Sections of early Thornhill family were in Yorkshire.

And one of the newspapers ( there were too many for me to note all ) reported on a grand wedding .. bridesmaids had sweet pea posies.. in Wolsingham, Co Durham,,, and every Thornhill and his dog were guests , including Bryan and wife. Guest list is almost a family tree !

But what happened to Geordie George, born Eldon Square ( now a big "Goth" meeting place) 1850 ?

Michael,
Newcastle

[trish1120]

Hi Michael,

Fascinating Family,
Yes, they originated from Fixby, Yorkshire and appeared in Diddington , Hunts in 1730.
There are Thornhill Papers in Hunts Archives. Last of the line died without issue 1956.
Also letters from Thornhills in NZ to ones in England are Archived. As I noticed Paul is from NZ perhaps that is the connection?

Cheers,
Trish

[Paul Street]

Trish

I only joined RootsChat a week ago and wow, all the replies to my posts have been amazing.

The connection is that Bryan's son George (4mths old, Newcastle, 1851 census) is my Great-Great-Grandfather.

George was also in the army, 65th Regiment, serving in India from 1871 to 1873 and retiring in 1874.

He moved to New Zealand, marrying Jessie Amelia Matthews in Wellington, NZ in 1876.

By 1890 Jessie was remarried, the newspaper stating the bride as "Jessie Thornhill, relic of the late Captain Thornhill", though I believe he only got as far as Lieutenant!

Another newspaper article then has Jessie's daughter, Dora Evan Thornhill, marrying my Great-Grandfather, Harold Sydney Street, in 1907.

And this is the connection of me, Paul Street, to the Thornhills:

Paul Street, son of
Michael Harold Street, son of
Bryan Thornhill Kerr Street, son of
Dora Evan Thornhill, daughter of
George Bryan Douglas Thornhill

I looked at the google search on the letters from NZ to England but do not know of a connection.

Many thanks to all repliers, I'm still trying to piece the early stuff together.

Paul

[Michael Dixon]

Paul,

 I should have been more specific with my question about Newcastle-born George Thornhill !   . Where was he on censuses after 1851, i.e. 1861,1871, etc ?

Michael,
Newcastle

[NEILKE]

as is often said theres a lot of realy good reserchers  here on roots they can find a needle in a hayskack so you are in the best place for your reserch.
neil

[Paul Street]

Michael,

In 1871 he was in India, then he moved to NZ, so I guess he is only missing for 1861.

Paul

[trish1120]

Hi Paul,
Thank you for the family line explaination. I confess I like to build up a picture of a family i am helping research
I am from NZ originally .
I havent found George in 1861 Census, possibly he is away at School.

1861 Census
RG9/3157/75/48
Tower Brivram?
Lancaster, Lancashire

Bryan THORNHILL,35,head, mar, Capt to Adj 171st Lan.Militia, born Hunts, Hemingford
Sophia..., 32, wife, mar, born Devon, Dawlish
Charlotte.A...,9, daug, scholar, born Norfolk, Norwich
Ellen.E..., 3, daug, born Cambridgeshire, Swaffam
Rose..., 1, daug, born Lancashire, Lancaster
+ 4 servants

Best of luck with your research.

Trish

[Graham S]

Trish

I only joined RootsChat a week ago and wow, all the replies to my posts have been amazing.

The connection is that Bryan's son George (4mths old, Newcastle, 1851 census) is my Great-Great-Grandfather.

George was also in the army, 65th Regiment, serving in India from 1871 to 1873 and retiring in 1874.

He moved to New Zealand, marrying Jessie Amelia Matthews in Wellington, NZ in 1876.

By 1890 Jessie was remarried, the newspaper stating the bride as "Jessie Thornhill, relic of the late Captain Thornhill", though I believe he only got as far as Lieutenant!

Another newspaper article then has Jessie's daughter, Dora Evan Thornhill, marrying my Great-Grandfather, Harold Sydney Street, in 1907.

And this is the connection of me, Paul Street, to the Thornhills:

Paul Street, son of
Michael Harold Street, son of
Bryan Thornhill Kerr Street, son of
Dora Evan Thornhill, daughter of
George Bryan Douglas Thornhill

I looked at the google search on the letters from NZ to England but do not know of a connection.

Many thanks to all repliers, I'm still trying to piece the early stuff together.

Paul

[Graham S]

I have an interest in the descendants George B D Thornhill and Jessie Amelia Matthews. Jessie’s sister, Emma Matthews was my Great Grandmother.

From my research I know that George & Jessie had 5 children all born in New Zealand. 3 of these children died very young. The other 2 children survived to adulthood, that is, Alice Margaret May Thornhill born 5 July 1880 and Helen Muriel Thornhill born 1883. Both these daughters were living in England in 1891 and returned to New Zealand in 1894. George B D Thornhill himself went to Australia and died there in 1893. The other child you referred to is Dora Evans Thornhill, noted as being your Great Grandmother. I can find no evidence that she was the daughter of George B D Thornhill. Dora was born 29 July 1887 at Napier New Zealand under the registered surname of Evans. I hold a copy of the birth registration. Her mother’s name is given as Jessie Evans aged 31 born in Monmouth Wales. This is almost certainly Jessie Amelia Matthews although for reasons unknown at the birth registration of Dora she gave her name as Jessie Evans. Evans was the maiden name of Jessie’s mother. The father’s name is not recorded on Dora’s birth registration.

The reason for the withholding of the father’s name is not known. In most cases, but not all, it could be that Dora was illegitimate. If George B D Thornhill was the father of Dora it is very strange why he was omitted from the birth registration and stranger still why Dora was registered under the surname of Evans. From school days at least Dora used the name Dora Evans Thornhill although this was not her given birth name.

As you already know, Jessie re-married in 1890 to Robert Kerr Somerville. This marriage seems to have been bigamy as her 1st husband was still alive and there in no record of a New Zealand divorce for them. If Robert Kerr Somerville was the father of Dora, in 1894 it became possible for Dora’s birth to be re-registered and Dora to be deemed a legitimate child of Jessie and her 2nd husband Robert K Somerville. This did not happen. Robert Somerville’s 1913 obituary states that he had 3 step daughters.

One can now only guess but to me it seems very likely that neither George Thornhill nor Robert Somerville were the biological father of Dora. If an older issued birth certificate, pre 1955 or 1969, for Dora is held by any family member, this may show the father’s name. Nowadays, New Zealand certificates are not issued showing the word “illegitimate” even through this word and the father’s name may have originally been recorded in 1887.

Family descendants can contact me by a personal message if they want to.