Author Topic: Help Finding my Grandfather  (Read 5265 times)

Offline carol8353

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 27 April 11 23:29 BST (UK) »
Ah my mum was the next of kin at the time he died and I am now the next of kin of both of them................both now long deceased   :'(
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Offline markey164

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 08 January 22 01:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Maybe John was born with a different surname then his mother married a William BARRETT. This one could be possible,


Birth
John A FRENCH    Dec Q 1918    Poplar    1c  557
Mother's Maiden Surname: French


Marriage
William BARRETT    Sep Q 1923    Poplar    1c  771   
Rose FRENCH with same details.

He might never have known that his birth name was FRENCH.


Long time in replying, however with the 1921 Census release, I have just found my grandfather John Alfred Barrett living in Silvertown (a stone's throw from his birthplace of Poplar) aged 2 years 8 months (see attached). This confirms Oct 1918 was his correct birthdate all along, which re-ignites the mystery of no matching birth record.

Interestingly, his mother is listed as Rose, which aligns with the theory posted above! The only snag is, Rose is apparently already married to William in the 1921 Census, whereas the marriage record posted above was for 1923.

Did people lie about their marital status back then? If they weren't married, wouldn't it have been illegal for Rose and John to have used William's surname?

If my Grandfather was indeed born John Albert French, is there a way to find out if his surname was legally changed to Barrett? Was it even a legal requirement in those days?


Online Cas (stallc)

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 08 January 22 04:08 GMT (UK) »
Deleted
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Gibbons/Mordecai/Mort/Squire/Thomas/David/Davies/Joseph/ Bowen/Lewis/Rees/Williams/Jones/Llewellyn/Morgan - Glam
Lewis - Ystradgynlias,  Breckonshire
Gibbons/Timbrell/Beale/Ludlow - Glos/Wilts
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd/Jones - Denbigh/Salop.
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford

Offline sparrett

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 08 January 22 04:55 GMT (UK) »

The marriage certificate dated   9th Sept 1923 shows Rose FRENCH, 27  a spinster of no occupation, resided at 168 *Uscher Rd Victoria Park. Her father was John Henry FRENCH, a warehouseman.
William BARRETT was a 36 year old widower of 172 *Uscher Rd. . Occ Dock Bridgeman. His father was George Barrett, deceased.
Witnesses, John Henry FRENCH and William Herbert MASON.
They were married after banns at St Marks, Victoria Park.  They both signed.

* I may have this name wrong. Not familiar with the area ;D
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 08 January 22 05:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
Another son was born  in 1921 and he was named for the father of Rose   who is listed on the marriage  [struck through. incorrect]
This boy and his parents are at 42 Church Rd. Barking, Essex when he was about 18 years old.

Sue

ADDING- omitted name of the child :P
William Herbert
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #23 on: Saturday 08 January 22 07:01 GMT (UK) »
I have not yet fathomed the relationship between the FRENCH family and the witness to the marriage named William Herbert MASON, but the 1937 Polling District shows still at 168 Usher Road.
 
FRENCH Frederick
FRENCH Gladys
FRENCH Leonard

MASON, Ethel
MASON William Herbert

Sue
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Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #24 on: Saturday 08 January 22 22:26 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

I think that William Herbert Mason married Rose's sister Ethel,


St Mark, Victoria Park
25 Dec 1921

William Herbert Llewellyn MASON
Age:  28
Bachelor
Drayman
168 Usher Road
Father:  James MASON,  Watchman

Ethel FRENCH
Age:  21
Spinster
Book keeper
168 Usher Road
Father:  John Henry FRENCH,  Warehouseman


The FRENCH family are living at 168 Usher Road in 1911.

Regards,
Daisy
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Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #25 on: Saturday 08 January 22 23:24 GMT (UK) »

Maybe John was born with a different surname then his mother married a William BARRETT. This one could be possible,

Birth
John A FRENCH    Dec Q 1918    Poplar    1c  557
Mother's Maiden Surname: French

Marriage
William BARRETT    Sep Q 1923    Poplar    1c  771   
Rose FRENCH with same details.

He might never have known that his birth name was FRENCH.


Interestingly, his mother is listed as Rose, which aligns with the theory posted above!

Long time in replying, however with the 1921 Census release, I have just found my grandfather John Alfred Barrett living in Silvertown (a stone's throw from his birthplace of Poplar) aged 2 years 8 months (see attached).

This confirms Oct 1918 was his correct birthdate all along, which re-ignites the mystery of no matching birth record.


Could this be your Rose & John

Rose French
admitted to workhouse (in Poplar) aged 22 on 30 Sep 1918, discharged 30 Oct 1918

Also on the record written above Roses name is
Admission 11.10.18 French John Alfred birth Illeg. Admission time 1.40am
Both discharged same day at 9.50 c/o Miss Wolseley

Daisypetal posted birth reg previously

From GRO indexes giving middle name

FRENCH, JOHN  ALFRED     - 
GRO Reference: 1918  D Quarter in POPLAR  Volume 01C  Page 557


Offline Marmalady

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Re: Help Finding my Grandfather
« Reply #26 on: Saturday 08 January 22 23:38 GMT (UK) »



Long time in replying, however with the 1921 Census release, I have just found my grandfather John Alfred Barrett living in Silvertown (a stone's throw from his birthplace of Poplar) aged 2 years 8 months (see attached). This confirms Oct 1918 was his correct birthdate all along, which re-ignites the mystery of no matching birth record.

Interestingly, his mother is listed as Rose, which aligns with the theory posted above! The only snag is, Rose is apparently already married to William in the 1921 Census, whereas the marriage record posted above was for 1923.

Did people lie about their marital status back then? If they weren't married, wouldn't it have been illegal for Rose and John to have used William's surname?

If my Grandfather was indeed born John Albert French, is there a way to find out if his surname was legally changed to Barrett? Was it even a legal requirement in those days?

Yes, people did lie about their marital status even back in 1921
Maybe William's first wife was still alive and so they didn't marry until 1923 , presumably after she had died.

There was no necessity to change a name legally. You could (and still can) call yourself anything you like, so long as it is not with intent to defraud.
Wainwright - Yorkshire
Whitney - Herefordshire
Watson -  Northamptonshire
Trant - Yorkshire
Helps - all
Needham - Derbyshire
Waterhouse - Derbyshire
Northing - all