Author Topic: A Lady Chatterly mystery?  (Read 1740 times)

Offline Sue Jones

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A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« on: Wednesday 09 March 05 19:25 GMT (UK) »
Hello!   I've only recently discovered this wonderful site, and I'm hoping that someone will be able to help me solve a mystery involving my great-grandparents!

1851 census: Markeaton Park, Derbyshire:
George Thornton, Farmer of 120 acres
Mary Thornton, wife
(children Richard George, Elizabeth, Millicent, Ellen.. and
(great-granny) ANNE THORNTON, age 5, born Markeaton.

The Thorntons were obviously reasonably well off - George died in 1859 leaving a considerable amount of money to his widow Mary and son George, but nothing at all to daughter Anne.

The 1861 census shows the widowed Mary and her children still living at the farm - but Anne (now aged around 15) is missing.   I can't find her anywhere.

However.. in the 1871 census, (now known as "Annie" aged 26) she is shown living in Talgarth, Brecon (Wales), as the wife of James Wade, a 33 year old gamekeeper from Newark, Notts.  James came from a family of gamekeepers and farm labourers, all from the Nottinghamshire area (Hawksworth/Syerston).  I've not been able to find James anywhere in 1861 either - and we've had no success in tracing their marriage, although they went on to have 7 children, (the first of whom, Thomas, was born in 1871 in Talgarth Brecon). The family moved around with James's work - in 1881 they were in Wrington Somerset, where 4 of their children were born.  Their last son was born in Mansfield, Derbyshire, three years before James' death.

It's tempting to conclude that young Anne ran off with her father's gamekeeper - but I would love to be able to find either of them in 1861, to see if there are any clues as to how or where they met.

Sorry this is so complicated!
Thanks for your help
Sue
WADE: Loughborough (Leics), Syerston, Hawksworth (Notts)
HIMAN/HYMAN/IRONMAN: Loughborough, Quorn, Woodhouse Eaves (Leics)
BENTLEY: Quorn, Woodhouse, Loughborough (Leics)
SKEATES/SKEATS: Waltham Abbey, Newnham, Bramdean (Hants)
MANN: Romford, Witham (Essex), Mountsorrel, Loughborough (Leics)
SKETCHLEY: Quorn, Ansty (Leics)
FLETCHER: Belton, Loughborough (Leics)
THORNTON: Mackworth, Markeaton, Littleover (Derbys)
UPTON: Woodhouse Eaves, Belton, Long Whatton (Leics)

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Offline Boongie Pam

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Re: A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 09 March 05 19:33 GMT (UK) »
I think it could be possible that Annie was maybe working away from home.  15 was not unusual to be working as a maid or domestic.  I have daughters of farmers of similar size farms that worked as domestics.

She may of married the gamekeeper who worked on the same property and it maybe that her parents did not approve.

When the 1861 census is online hopefully you may get an answer!

Pam
 ;D
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~

Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier

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Offline Sue Jones

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Re: A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 09 March 05 20:17 GMT (UK) »
Pam:   you might be on to something there - but all of her older AND younger sisters were still living at home in 1861, so if she WAS sent away to work on someone else's farm, I think she must have done something bad!   (Or maybe she was just at a pyjama party down the road, and there's no mystery at all!)

 (Do you have any idea when the 1861 census might go online?)

Thanks for your suggestions!
Sue
WADE: Loughborough (Leics), Syerston, Hawksworth (Notts)
HIMAN/HYMAN/IRONMAN: Loughborough, Quorn, Woodhouse Eaves (Leics)
BENTLEY: Quorn, Woodhouse, Loughborough (Leics)
SKEATES/SKEATS: Waltham Abbey, Newnham, Bramdean (Hants)
MANN: Romford, Witham (Essex), Mountsorrel, Loughborough (Leics)
SKETCHLEY: Quorn, Ansty (Leics)
FLETCHER: Belton, Loughborough (Leics)
THORNTON: Mackworth, Markeaton, Littleover (Derbys)
UPTON: Woodhouse Eaves, Belton, Long Whatton (Leics)

Offline MarieC

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Re: A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 09 March 05 23:51 GMT (UK) »
Sue

1861 is starting to go online at 1837online.  There are four counties there at present, London and surrounds, and four are listed as coming soon.  You could have a look at the site and see what is there. 

Possibly you could email them to see when the county you want is coming.

Best wishes,

MarieC
Census information is Crown copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline Sue Jones

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Re: A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 10 March 05 03:45 GMT (UK) »
Marie:  Thank you, I'll keep an eye on that site!
Sue
WADE: Loughborough (Leics), Syerston, Hawksworth (Notts)
HIMAN/HYMAN/IRONMAN: Loughborough, Quorn, Woodhouse Eaves (Leics)
BENTLEY: Quorn, Woodhouse, Loughborough (Leics)
SKEATES/SKEATS: Waltham Abbey, Newnham, Bramdean (Hants)
MANN: Romford, Witham (Essex), Mountsorrel, Loughborough (Leics)
SKETCHLEY: Quorn, Ansty (Leics)
FLETCHER: Belton, Loughborough (Leics)
THORNTON: Mackworth, Markeaton, Littleover (Derbys)
UPTON: Woodhouse Eaves, Belton, Long Whatton (Leics)

Offline Carmela

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Re: A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 11 March 05 05:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue,
Your idea that she must have done something bad that resulted in her being sent away, could be right on the mark.
The first thing that comes to mind is pregnancy. In order to avoid disgrace and village gossip, pregnant daughters were often packed off to live with a relative some distance away.
If there was a baby, it may have been passed off as the child of an aunt or older married sister, so there may be no trace of it. Just another thought.
 
It is probably more likely that she ran away with James. Incidentally, it is not likely that James worked for Annie's father; as a rule, farmers did not employ gamekeepers. If James did start out his career near the Thornton farm, he probably worked for one of the local landed gentry.

Guess there is no way of solving this mystery until you can get a look at that 1861 Census. As for the marriage, if there was one, the way gamekeepers moved around, it may be very hard to find. It is also possible that they never did marry. Living in places where they were not known, it would have been easy to lie about that.
 
Good luck and do let us know if you solve this mystery.
 
Carmela
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Offline Cell

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Re: A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 11 March 05 06:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
 Here is another scenario for you :

If the family were well to do, have you considered that she may be at  a private  boarding school, in another district somewhere. This happens a lot. Or perhaps she was just visiting someone, a relative etc  in another district.

The will -  did he leave any to the other daughters? As you have only said he left it to his widow and son George.

 On an old will I have , one of the father's  I have left everything to his son, and none to his daughters. Not because they did anything bad, it was  just because the men/fathers  were "sexist pigs" in those days - pardon the French  ;D. some families were inclined to leave it  just to the males  in many cases, who were  carrying on the family name.

The father wrote into his will if anything happend to his son, then the money and land  only then  should be shared among his daughters and their husbands. But he initially  left the lot only to the son in his will, not giving his daughters anything. The son died and the daughters got the lot  lol ( not funny, the son  who died was my ancestor! lol ! His widow  of my dead son ancestor and kids got nothing, because of what was written into the will :'(  ;D)

 Best wishes :)

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Offline JAP

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Re: A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 11 March 05 09:49 GMT (UK) »
Hello Cell,

I've seen Wills of times past where enlightened (worldly-wise?) Dads left money to their daughters with the express proviso that it was for them alone to do as they would with and that their husbands or future husbands were to have no say whatsoever in its disposition.

Judy

Offline Jane Masri

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Re: A Lady Chatterly mystery?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 12 March 05 15:09 GMT (UK) »
Up until 1854 with the advent of the Married Women's Act, if a women owned property/money/shares etc this automatically went to her husband on marriage :o
As Judy said, there were legal loopholes that could prevent this happening, I have a will written in 1830 doing just that.  I'm glad we live in enlightened days ;)

Jane
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