Author Topic: Plymouth James DOEL 1830  (Read 7356 times)

Offline joboy

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #9 on: Friday 13 November 09 05:30 GMT (UK) »
I think that we who are trying to help are going to need some more information to be of use.
You show his birth 1830 as 'Plymouth?'
This might well be correct but not necessarily the home of his parents who may well have been visiting there (from Frome perhaps?) or perhaps his father may have been 'ex Frome' and a military man (Marine or Sailor) stationed there and married there.
On the other hand he may well have been the 1st born in his family in which case,as was commonplace, he may have been born in his mother's parish (Plymouth?) and his subsequent siblings in Frome or thereabouts.
The significance of the battle of Trafalgar at this stage of your quest may be a dead end as the medal may well have been found or acquired from a shop or similar as a 'curio' and for the time being perhaps it should be placed on the backburner.
There was a Trafalgar 'Commemoration medal' and a Trafalgar 'Campaign medal' and you could identify which one you have by 'googling' and let us know.
The 1851 census will give place of birth and there is living at Frome;
Karen Dole widow 58 'Keeper of quarry' born Herfordshire and her grandson James Dole 21 born Devonport (half a mile from Plymouth) a quarryman which is a good bet for your James born Plymouth 1830.
Going back to 1841 census (where no precise birthplace or birthdate is shown) we have living at Westbury workhouse;
Elizabeth Doel 60 aglab 'not born in county' and James Doel 12 aglab 'born in county' which might indicate that his parents had died and he was with his grandmother.
I cant help but thoroughly concur with suzard's input.
joboy



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Offline joboy

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #10 on: Friday 13 November 09 06:08 GMT (UK) »
Further to my last post there was a sailor aboard HMS Orion named William Motts at Trafalgar and this may be the William Moits which shows on the medallion.
HMS Orion was broken up in Plymouth in 1814 just 9 years after Trafalgar perhaps this medallion referred to him.
We used to have a rootschatter called 'tradelin' who posted this a few years ago;
Can anyone do a look up in Kew for me? I have a William MOTT aged 26 yrs. "of Essex" an Able Seaman on board the HMS 'ORION' in the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805.
His Paybook number was 5B 433, The Cat number is ADM 37/18
unfortunately tradelin made his last post in February 2006

Just a thought.
joboy
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Offline suzard

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #11 on: Friday 13 November 09 09:33 GMT (UK) »
I think that we who are trying to help are going to need some more information to be of use.
You show his birth 1830 as 'Plymouth?'
This might well be correct but not necessarily the home of his parents who may well have been visiting there (from Frome perhaps?) or perhaps his father may have been 'ex Frome' and a military man (Marine or Sailor) stationed there and married there.
On the other hand he may well have been the 1st born in his family in which case,as was commonplace, he may have been born in his mother's parish (Plymouth?) and his subsequent siblings in Frome or thereabouts.
The significance of the battle of Trafalgar at this stage of your quest may be a dead end as the medal may well have been found or acquired from a shop or similar as a 'curio' and for the time being perhaps it should be placed on the backburner.
There was a Trafalgar 'Commemoration medal' and a Trafalgar 'Campaign medal' and you could identify which one you have by 'googling' and let us know.
The 1851 census will give place of birth and there is living at Frome;
Karen Dole widow 58 'Keeper of quarry' born Herfordshire and her grandson James Dole 21 born Devonport (half a mile from Plymouth) a quarryman which is a good bet for your James born Plymouth 1830.
Going back to 1841 census (where no precise birthplace or birthdate is shown) we have living at Westbury workhouse;
Elizabeth Doel 60 aglab 'not born in county' and James Doel 12 aglab 'born in county' which might indicate that his parents had died and he was with his grandmother.
I cant help but thoroughly concur with suzard's input.
joboy





Hi joboy,

I had already given the information from the 1851 census - there is a "granddaughter in law" who is Ann baker - which is why I thought it Kerrenhappuch may be a possibility for james Grandmother . Possibly George baker had been previously married and Ann was from that marriage???
I think the purchase of james Doel's marriage cert is essential

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline suzard

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #12 on: Friday 13 November 09 09:55 GMT (UK) »
I think the 1841 census where there is a james Doel in the Workhouse, Westbury  with Elizabeth is maybe a red herring .

There are 2 james Doels of a similar age in Westbury in 1841 - both accounted for in 1851 - one is a private in 13th regiment of infantry in Winchester - and the other is in prison in Devizes

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline woo7173

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #13 on: Friday 13 November 09 22:16 GMT (UK) »
Getting very intense!many thanks for the lookups!i have found the death of KarenHappuch in freebmd aged 78 in Dec 1872  in Frome! so SUZ you are spot on and this must be his grandmother.
Wood~Frome /Zeals/Stourton/Great Bedwyn
Doel~Frome/Plymouth
Brown~Frome/Wilton
Stacey~Wilton
Ritchens~Trowbridge/Semington/
Smart~Calne
Colley~Trowbridge/Marlborough
Owen~Trowbridge/

Offline joboy

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #14 on: Friday 13 November 09 22:38 GMT (UK) »


Quote

Hi joboy,

I had already given the information from the 1851 census - there is a "granddaughter in law" who is Ann baker - which is why I thought it Kerrenhappuch may be a possibility for james Grandmother . Possibly George baker had been previously married and Ann was from that marriage???
I think the purchase of james Doel's marriage cert is essential

Suz
Quote
Just got to agree Suz ......... it makes good sense and now time to start buying certificates for sure.
Well done,
joboy
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Offline suzard

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #15 on: Friday 13 November 09 22:52 GMT (UK) »
I have also found a irth of William Mott in Essex

Of course another possibility is that james was illegit - and guessing even further William Mott was his father

I wish a "satifactory" james could be found in 1841

and the gran is missing from 1841/61

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline woo7173

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #16 on: Friday 13 November 09 23:22 GMT (UK) »
will take the medal to a specialist to examine the engraved name(more i look the more motts is not right seems moi?s),will send for james marriage certificate to show father also.
Wood~Frome /Zeals/Stourton/Great Bedwyn
Doel~Frome/Plymouth
Brown~Frome/Wilton
Stacey~Wilton
Ritchens~Trowbridge/Semington/
Smart~Calne
Colley~Trowbridge/Marlborough
Owen~Trowbridge/

Offline joboy

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Re: Plymouth James DOEL 1830
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 14 November 09 06:55 GMT (UK) »
Thanks ,filled in a few dates and names to go on with.Not found any link to Westbury Doels,there are a lot of them!hoping to find a link down the Doel tree (plymouth) to a sailor in the battle of Trafalgar,i have a medal with a name etched on it(William Moits?)its badly pitted and hard to see,tried similar sounding last names in the national archives lists for sailors in the battle but no luck yet!hoping this might be family related.
You can if you wish take a photo (all angles especially the etched name) and post it to rootschatters photograph lot ........ it's amazing what they can do.
joboy
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