john lloyd/hannah dyke and thomas evans/elizabeth morris

[k.whigham]

Can anyone supply further info on John Lloyd (farmer) and wife Hannah Dyke who had a daughter Margaret at Cwmbrith, Cefnllys in 1842;
or on Thomas Evans (labourer) and wife Elizabeth Morris who had a daughter Elizabeth at Wainadam (?), Nantmel in 1841.

Thanks, Kate

[Seattle]

Hi Kate,

Elizabeth Morris is in my direct Morris line.  I'm afraid I don't know anything about Thomas Evans yet.  I have a lot of Morris info I can share, if interested.


Seattle

[Seattle]

Hi again Kate,

Here's some info on John Lloyd from the 1841 Census for Cefnllys.

LLOYD, John,  40, Farmer, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f6/p6
LLOYD, Thomas,  35, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f6/p6
LLOYD, John,  15, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f6/p6
LLOYD, Edward,  15, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f6/p6
LLOYD, Thomas,  12, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f6/p6
LLOYD, Benjamin,  3, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f6/p6
LLOYD, Isaiah,  1, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f6/p6
LLOYD, Ann,  15, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f6/p6
LLOYD, Hanah,  10, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f7/p7
LLOYD, Mary,  8, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f7/p7
LLOYD, Eliza,  6, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f7/p7
LLOYD, Elizabeth,  5, Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f7/p7
VAUGHAN, Jane,  15, F.S., Y, Upper Cwmbreeth, f7/p7

1851 Census:
(This one only gives Name, Age & birthplace)

Ann                    23          Cefnllys          folio 224
Benjamin            13                "                        "
Edmund               3                 "                        "
Edward               25                "                        "
Elizabeth            14                "                        "
Hannah               20               "                         "
Isaya                   11               "                        "
James                   7                "                        "
John                    27        Llandegley                "
John                    52       Llanfihangel               "
Margaret              9         Cefnllys                     "
Mary                    18               "                         "
Naomi                   3                "                         "
Thomas                22              "                          "

I can't be sure this is all the same family, because the names are listed in alphabetical order, rather than in family groups.  Hopefully, you'll be able to sort them out?

Do you have them in 1881?  If not, I can give that to you, too.     

Cheers,
Seattle                 

[k.whigham]

Hi Seattle
All these Lloyds are certainly confusing!  My g-g-grandmother was Margaret Lloyd, who would be the 9 year old in the 1851 census.  But there seems to be no record of the mother Hannah? (What does the "Y" denote?) I have traced Margaret's descendants to the present day, and I knew of Naomi, but found nothing more on John and Hannah on any census.

I'm now not sure about Thomas Evans and Elizabeth Morris being my ancestors.  My g-g-grandmother Elizabeth Williams (nee Evans) had a father Thomas, but according to census info was born at St Harmon, not Nantmel, though this could of course be an error.  Do you know if Thomas and Elizabeth ever lived at Bwlchgwyn farm, St Harmon?  Elizabeth Evans was living there in 1865 when she married William Williams, and the farm is still in my family.  I would be interested in finding out who lived there and when it first appears on any records.

Any info you have on any of this would be of interest.
Thanks, Kate

[kmo]

(What does the "Y" denote?)

Y means born in the county.
N, born outside the county.
Regards
kmo

[Seattle]

Hi Kate

1861 Census:

St. Harmon
EVANS Jonah B, h, m, 55, BD Vicar of St Harmon, BRE Llywel, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p3
EVANS Eliza, w, m, 53, Clergyman's wife, CMN Pengarreg, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p3
WILLIAMS Sarah, ml, w, 75, Fund holder, CGN Llanvairlydyn?, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p3
LEWIS Sarah, sv, u, 17, House servant, RAD St Harmons, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p3


1881 Census:

   Dwelling:   Bwlchgwyn
   Census Place:   (St Harmon) Clas & Rhiwrhaid, Radnor, Wales
   Source:   FHL Film 1342316     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 5475    Folio 100    Page 15
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
William WILLIAMS   M   40    M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Farmer 150 Acres
Elizath. WILLIAMS   M   39    F   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Wife
   Occ:   Farmers Wife
Elizath. WILLIAMS   U   15    F   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Daug
   Occ:   Scholar
Maurice WILLIAMS   U   13    M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Mary Ann WILLIAMS   U   11    F   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Daug
   Occ:   Scholar
William WILLIAMS   U   9    M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Naomi WILLIAMS   U   7    F   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Daug
   Occ:   Scholar
Thomas WILLIAMS   U   5    M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Son
   Occ:   Scholar
Clara WILLIAMS   U   3    F   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Daug
James Walter WILLIAMS   U   1    M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Son
David FRANCIS   U   17    M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Serv
   Occ:   Farm Servant (Indoor)

   Dwelling:   Bwlchgwyn (II)
   Census Place:   (St Harmon) Clas & Rhiwrhaid, Radnor, Wales
   Source:   FHL Film 1342316     PRO Ref RG11    Piece 5475    Folio 100    Page 15
   Marr   Age   Sex   Birthplace
John DAVIES   M   43    M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Head
   Occ:   Plate Layer
Hannah DAVIES   M   22    F   Sirhowy, Monmouth, England
   Rel:   Wife
   Occ:   Plate Layers Wife
John Walter DAVIES       1 m   M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Son
Jonathan HOPE   U   15    M   St Harmon, Radnorshire, Wales
   Rel:   Serv
   Occ:   Farm Servant (Indoor)

I couldn't find Bwlchgwyn on the 1841 Census.  There was a Bwlch....

Will look further and get back to you soon.
Seatte

[Seattle]

Hi Kate,

I've just found this entry in the 1841 Census for Nantmel.

EVANS, Thomas,  45, farmer, No, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Charlotte,  35,  Y, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Elizabeth,  75, independent, No, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Thomas,  20,  Y, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, John,  15,  Y, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Sarah,  14,  No, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Theophilus,  9,  Y, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Daniel,  5,  No, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Eliakim,  3,  No, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Ann,  2,  Y, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Naomi,  1,  Y, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9
EVANS, Hannah,  25, female servant, No, Upper Bwlch, f8/p9

According to my info, Thomas Evans and Elizabeth Morris married 11 Jun 1841, which would have been just after this census was taken. 

Does anyone know what Bwlchgwyn means?  Could the son Thomas (and Elizabeth) have named their farm after Upper Bwlch?  Just a thought, as I don't see Bwlchgwyn farm in 1841 in St. Harmon.

Will get back to you again.
Seattle

[Seattle]

Hi Kate,

I've checked the 1861 Census again and found the following:

BRUNT Edward, h, m, 62, Fmr290a, RAD Abbeycwmhir, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p4
BRUNT Elizabeth, w, m, 69, Fmr's wife, RAD St Harmon, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p4
EVANS Elizabeth, sv, u, 19, Dairymaid, RAD Nantmel, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p4
EVANS John, sv, u, 16, Carter, RAD Llandewy, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p4
PRICE Thomas, sv, u, 11, Shepherd, GLA, Bwlchgwyn, /f30/p4


The Jonah Evans I sent earlier, was also there in 1861.  It's a bit confusing because Jonah is in folio 30, page 4, followed by this entry:

FOXTON Frederic J, h, m, 54, CofE clergyman &c, GLS Twining?, Glyngwy, /f30/p3,
FOXTON Catherine D, w, m, 53, , HUN Fletton, Glyngwy, /f30/p3,
PAGE Mary Ann, sv, u, 42, House servant, HEF Thinbottom, Glyngwy, /f30/p3,
DEAKIN Harriet, sv, u, 22, House servant, WOR Stoke Prior, Glyngwy, /f30/p3,
MEREDITH John, h, m, 44, Lab, RAD Nantmel, Glyngwy Lodge, /f30/p3
MEREDITH Eliza, w, m, 40, Lab's wife, RAD Llandewy, Glyngwy Lodge, /f30/p3
HAMER Elizabeth, nc, u, 12, Carpenter's daughter, RAD Llanannan, Glyngwy Lodge, /f30/p3

Then, the entry for Edward Blunt appears on folio 30, page 4.

I suppose it's possible that there were three dwellings on Bwlchgwyn farm?  Anyway, according to this census, Elizabeth (1842) was born in Nantmel, not St. Harmon.  So, it's still possible that she was the daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth (Morris). 

By 1861, I think Thomas and Elizabeth were in Abbey-cwm-hir:

EVANS Thomas, h, m, 48, Fmr 36a, RAD Nantmel, Llanarchdwrion, /f10/p20
EVANS Elizabeth, w, m, 43, Fmr's wife, RAD Nantmel, Llanarchdwrion, /f10/p20
EVANS Edward, s, u, 11, Fmr's son, RAD Abbeycwmhir, Llanarchdwrion, /f10/p20
EVANS Thomas, s, u, 9, Fmr's son, RAD Abbeycwmhir, Llanarchdwrion, /f10/p20
EVANS Jonathan, s, u, 6, Fmr's son, RAD Abbeycwmhir, Llanarchdwrion, /f10/p20
EVANS Morgan, s, u, 4, Fmr's son, RAD Abbeycwmhir, Llanarchdwrion, /f10/p20
EVANS Mary, d, u, 5m, Fmr's daughter, RAD Abbeycwmhir, Llanarchdwrion, /f10/p20

Do these first names run in your Evans line?

I have a feeling that Bwlchgwyn came into your family through William Williams.  If you'll notice, there was a Sarah Williams living with Jonah and Eliza Evans in 1861.  As Elizabeth was working as dairymaid for them, maybe that's how she met William?

Eureka!  Look what I just found in 1841 in St Harmon:

WILLIAMS, Edward,  53, farmer, Y, Bulchgwin, f12/p18
WILLIAMS, Mary,  36,  No, Bulchgwin, f12/p18
WILLIAMS, Martha,  18,  Y, Bulchgwin, f12/p18
WILLIAMS, Mary,  17,  Y, Bulchgwin, f12/p18
WILLIAMS, Jane,  12,  Y, Bulchgwin, f12/p18
WILLIAMS, Elizabeth,  10,  Y, Bulchgwin, f12/p18
WILLIAMS, Margret,  5,  Y, Bulchgwin, f12/p18

Are these William's parents, do you know?  This all gets very complicated, doesn't it?!!


Anyway, see what you think about all this and let me know.

Sharon in Seattle

[Kayzee]

Hi Sharon & Kate, Have just discovered the above conversation & thought I'd let you know that I have much information on the Thomas & Elizabeth you are discussing. You've probably moved on from the discussion but although you had a few 'red herrings' in your chat you were 'on the right track' Thomas was at Caemerial with his parents just 4 days before the wedding & the Thomas at Upper Bwlch was just there to confuse you! Thomas & Elizabeth's daughter Elizabeth was born at Wainadam 1.nov.1841 & died 30.11.1884 aged 43. Let me know if you are still looking for info as I have a good tree for the Evans side & detail of Thomas' 2nd marriage, his death & the will that caused friction for 100 years!