Looking for the Astbury family, Kelsall, 1871-1880

[Barbara.H]

I have William Astbury's family in Kelsall on the 1881 census as follows:

William Astbury, 40, ag lab b. Tarvin
Betsy Astbury, 33 b. Kelsall
George Astbury,   14       "
John Astbury,11,          "
Henry Astbury, 9          "
John Astbury, 6            "
Joseph Astbury, 5         "
Susan Astbury, 2          "
Thomas Astbury, 3 mo  "    
Letitia Minister, 73, mother in law

RG11/3553/64

William Astbury married Betsy Minister early 1870; I'm waiting for the certificate in the post.  I can't find them on the 1871 census at all. Can anyone else see them? 

Second thing I'm having trouble with is, which GRO birth registrations would be right for the two John Astburys, born around 1870 and 1875?  Its the younger one I'm mostly interested in, but curious about the older one as well - why two Johns?
I went for a birth registered in Northwich, 2nd quarter 1874, but it was the wrong one & I'm unfamiliar with Cheshire registration districts.  Which areas cover Kelsall please?

Thanks,
  Barbara

[JDGen]

Hi Barbara,

This page will tell you which registration district Kelsall was included in at various points in time:

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/chs/kelsall.html

If Betsy and William Astbury married in 1870 that would be after the birth of George and possibly John (11) - which might explain the 2 John's if the name featured strongly in both female lines.  Do you have any information on possible earlier marriages?

Jean

[Barbara.H]

Thanks for the link Jean 

I sent for William & Betsy's marriage cert last week so I'm hoping it will turn up soon & show whether either of them was widowed. 

I think 'George Astbury' might be Betsy's child out of wedlock as there is a George Minister that fits, registered Dec 1866 at Gt Boughton.  Betsy's maiden name is Minister and I can't see any other marriage for her before the Astbury one. But there are several William Astbury marriages between 1860-70 so he might have married before.

I'll post again when the marriage cert arrives.

  Barbara

[posteria]

Hello Barbara

In 1871 have a look at Chester RG10/3720 Folio 12 Page 17, for the family at schedule number 80, and see what you think.

posteria

Looks like the first John was actually Jane

[posteria]

Barbara

At a later stage, if you are struggling to find the Minister family in 1851 and 1871, try looking for them listed as Gaskin.

posteria

[Barbara.H]

Thank you so much on both counts Posteria 

The census writing looks to me like 'Hasprey', as if someone was trying to talk posh to the enumerator!
It does look like Jane, not John. And in the 1881 census 'John' was originally recorded as a daughter, this was crossed out & amended to 'son'

and as for this one

if you are struggling to find the Minister family in 1851 and 1871, try looking for them listed as Gaskin.

that would have taken me a lo-o-o-o-ng time to find.  What is the story there I wonder?

No marriage cert for Betsy & William yet - will keep you posted
Thanks again
  Barbara

[Barbara.H]

Here we are:

William Astbury, 28, bachelor residing Willington, labourer, father William Astbury
Betsy Minister, 22, spinster residing Kelsall, father George Minister
married at Kelsall parish church on January 24, 1870.
both made their mark; one witness was an Emma Astbury.

So it looks as if George was Betsy's child before marriage and Jane/John was born around or just after they wed.

Many thanks to you both posteria & Jean
  Barbara

[posteria]

... and Jane/John was born around or just after they wed.

Hello Barbara

I am fairly sure that the child born in 1870 was Jane. I think she married at St John, Ashton Hayes in 1889 and on the 1891 (and subsequent) censuses, she is shown with her married name, indicating that she was born in 1870 at Kelsall. I will leave it to you to check the marriage details and the later census entries for her and her husband to see if you agree.

She and/or her husband were probably better educated than her parents and she is called Astbury on her marriage registration. However, I think her birth registration is probably shown as Asprey which might be how it sounded when one or other parent made the registration orally and signed with their mark, as on their own marriage certificate.

posteria

[Barbara.H]