dead-end? McGuinness

[andarah]

I have a convoluted brickwall and I will explain it the best that I can.  Any help at all that anyone can give me would very, very appreciated.

I cannot find this family prior to 1880 and I don't even know which country to look in.

I have Mary Ann McGuinness marrying Thomas Kane on either Dec 31, 1880 or Feb 3, 1880 in Glasgow.  Her marriage extract and son's birth extract say Dec 31, her 1899 poor law application says Feb 3.

Her parents are Mary Bradley and James McGuinness. 

According to the censuses in Glasgow in 1881, 1891, and 1901, she was either born in Ireland, Canada or America.  According to her poor law application, she was born in Canada.  The census that says the America, actually says BS America, which means British Subject in America.  I am assuming her parents were born in Ireland, and she was born in Canada.  I don't know, but I am thinking that America was short for North America, as one census says `Canada, America'.

She was born in 1862.  I have no age on her parents and I have no real location of birth for any of them.  I don't know if there are any siblings.

I have her mother Mary dead before Mary Ann's wedding in 1880 and her father died between her 1880 wedding and her 1899 poor law application.  I don't know if her mother died in Canada or Scotland.  I don't know where her father died.  I don't know if her parents went to Scotland at all or stayed in Canada.

The names I have each of them using at various points are:

James or John McGuinness
Mary or Ann Bradley/Broadley
Mary Ann, Mary A, Mary McGuinness/McGines, Kane/Kean or Broadley

Her husband is well-known to police for assault, being drunk, etc.  So, if her parents are anything like her husband, it is possible that the variety of names are aliases, rather than recording errors.  This makes it more difficult to find them.

They were Roman Catholic.  Her father was a farmer/labourer and Mary Ann was a fish hawker.

The documents I have been able to find/buy are Mary Ann's marriage to John Kane, Mary Ann's death.  Mary Ann's son, Thomas's marriage and another son, George's death.  I also have a poor law application for her when her husband was in jail.  I have both Thomas and George's WWI records.  I have not found any records on either of the parents, have not found them in a single census and cannot find Mary Ann's birth registration.

I would really appreciate any help at all on this one.  I honestly don't know if this is a breakable brick wall, but I hope it is.

[jorose]

It is not uncommon to see "North America" written as the pob for Canadian-born people in the UK censuses.

I would assume the marriage extract is correct and the poor-law application is mistaken.
Have you tracked her address at marriage and the witness names? (It is possible she was in Scotland as she was sent back to relatives after her mother's death, or moved to stay with them. Might be under a name you don't recognise e.g. a married sister of James McGuinness).
Have you looked for others b. Canada or US in the Scottish censuses (under surnames McGuinness and variations, or Bradley/Broadley)?

[andarah]

I hadn't thought of that.  Thanks!

Any idea how to bring up a particular address from a census?

[Jacquie in Canada]

If you have access to Ancestry, their Scotland census databases can be searched by address. You can also search by street at the FreeCen:
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

It can be tricky at times if the street is spelled wrong on the registration or census. It's usually better to seach only the street name and not including whether it's a street, road, lane, etc.

Jacquie

[andarah]

I have tried on ancestry and it doesn't seem to be working.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong?  I don't see a place to type in the address, so I am putting the street into the section for other information.

Thanks for the other link.  I'll give that a go.

The address is 20 Polmadie Street, and I've been putting in the whole thing.  I'll drop the number and the `street' and try it.

Is it possible to search without the names to simply find out who lived there?

[cosmac]

You might try searching the Hutchestown area of Glasgow.  Your family was resident in that area on the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census.  From IGI records it shows son Andrew born Jan 25, 1882 Hutchesontown, son Patrick born Jan 21, 1886 the same area.  Son Francis was also born there Dec 9, 1889.  Didn't find any entries for the other 5 children.

The IGI records also list a marriage for Mary Ann McGuiness to John Kane for 3 separate dates.
Dec 31, 1875 Glasgow, Dec 31, 1880 Hutchesontown, Glasgow and Dec 31, 1888 Hutchesontown, Glasgow. 

I started looking at the 1871 Canadian census to try and find a John/James with a Mary/Ann and a daughter Mary Ann born around 1862.  There is a family in Wentworth Cumberland county Nova Scotia.  All members born Nova Scotia but Scottish extraction and Roman Catholic.  John McGinnes (40), b. 1831 Stone Mason, Mary (30) and Mary (, John (6), Isabel (4), Catherine A () Margary (1).  Did not find the family on the 1881 census.  There are so many spelling variations of the last name that it does make the job difficult.

Debbie

[andarah]

Thanks Debbie!

According to the poor law application, all the kids were born on Polmadie Street, but all at different addresses.  I have Andrew's birth extract.  I was hoping that since he was born first, it would give me something I didn't already have.  It didn't give me anything new.

The dates for the marriage don't surprise me.  That's what I have been getting with every direction I turn.  However, this does reinforce that they were married on Dec 31.  That's nice to know.

For the family in Nova Scotia, it does look like it could be them, except that James was a farmer.  I have found about 6 possible families in Canada in 1871, but none are a perfect match.  I have a John, Margaret and a 13 yo Mary in Quebec.  I have a Johiel, Mary and 10 yo Sary Ann in Ontario (Presb).  I have a James, Mary Ellen and 8 yo Mary Francis in Nova Scotia.  I have a family in Rhode Island that's also close and 2 more in Ontario.

I have a Mary dying in 1876 in Ontario, with a James as the witness, but I cannot find them on a census to prove they had a daughter.

I have tried looking for Mary dying in Nova Scotia between 1871 and 1880, in an effort to try to prove the family you found, but I cannot find a death.

You are right about the names - too many spelling variations, too common and too many variations on the names (Mary, Ann, Mary Ann, Maria, James, John....).

I'll continue to try Hutchestown.

Agh!

[Jacquie in Canada]

When you open the search page for a specific year of the Scotland census, make sure you have the advanced search options visible (there is a link that says "Show Advanced Search Options" under the boxes for county, parish and town). One of the boxes in the advanced seach section says "address".

Jacquie

[andarah]

Thanks Jacqui - I've tried that now and still no luck.

Can anyone figure this out?

It's one of the witnesses from the marriage extract, and something is written under her name.