Author Topic: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.  (Read 19566 times)

Offline Ringoroses

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Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« on: Thursday 03 December 09 16:58 GMT (UK) »
Ok, I'm well aware this is a minefield, but I'm looking for Butler's and McNamara's in the Crusheen area. It seems the two familes were pretty much intertwined for many years.

Thanks to some very welcome help from a wonderful local researcher, so far as I know,  Michael Joseph Butler was born abt. 1841, the son of Patrick Butler (1793 - 1871) of Crusheen and Bridget (). Michael had a brother, also called Patrick, (c1833-1869).

The family legend has it that the Butlers lived in somewhere called Stone Park House but, despite much research, I've been unable to locate such a place other than to see somewhere of that name listed in Griffiths. 

Michael Joseph Butler married Margaret McNamara in St Cronan's in Crusheen in Jan 1872. Their first son, Patrick John, was born in  Loghanabrone (AKA Caheraphuca which is also spelled Caherafooka, Caherapooka) Ennis, in 1873. Their witnesses were John Fogarty and Bridget McNamara. Soon afterward, the family moved to Liverpool, where they had two more children (Michael Joseph and Susan) before Michael senior died c1876 - 81.  We think Michael was a mariner, so it's possible he died at sea. Family legend has it that the family (not sure whether it was the McNamara's or Butlers)  frequently sent Margaret money  after Michael died. Michael was also believed to have been picked up in Dublin by a horse and carriage and driven back to Crusheen on several occasions to visit, but I have found no evidence of this so far.

Regards,
Ann

















Offline obbie

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Re: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 03 December 09 22:24 GMT (UK) »
hi ann .
 i live in crusheen not so far away from caheraphuca (google earth it) its on main road between ballyline and crusheen theres a giants grave there (dolman fallen down)
 on clare library web site you can look at ordance survey map from 1842 town land and grave is on it .
on 1901 census townland is cahraphuca .
 there was only one house that i know of on this townland now gone theres two lanes of new dual carriageway going through it .
as you already know butlers and mcnamara is very common name here .
i could take a stroll through local graveyard and have a nosy for patricks and bridgets grave stone if they had one . or have you looked ?
regards rob
 census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Hanrahan dublin - brock limerick dublin - farrington wicklow dublin - fagan dublin wicklow - mescall clare u.s.a - heron herring wales england

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 03 December 09 22:34 GMT (UK) »
1911 census actually lists 5 households in Cahraphuca-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Crusheen/Cahraphuca/
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Ringoroses

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Re: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 03 December 09 23:49 GMT (UK) »
That 1911 link was interesting, particularly the McNamara /Fogarty link. Have taken a copy just in case, so thanks for that.

Rob, yes, the house really is a mystery. I'm beginning to think the story has got lost in translation over the years or something.  No, I haven't managed to get across to Ireland yet (done the googleearth thng a few times  ;)) . I'm hoping to get there one day. But in the meantime, that's a very generous offer if you have the time and it isn't too much trouble.  I have no idea whether they'll have a gravestone, but if what the family tell me about them is true, that they sent money over, and sent a coach and horses all the way to Dublin for them when they visited, chances are they might.

Thanks both for your interest,

Regards
Ann 



Offline Ringoroses

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Re: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« Reply #4 on: Monday 07 December 09 17:22 GMT (UK) »
Just a bit more info from my records.

When Margaret and Michael's son, Patrick was christened, the godparents  were Thady (Timothy) McNamara  and  Anne McNamara, possibly Margaret's siblings.

We also think we've managed to track down another brother, John, who married a Catherine O'keefe, daughter of John O'Keefe, farmer, in 1867 and gave the same address, Lochanabrone.

John and Catherine are known to have had several children, James, Mary, Michael, John, Timothy, Catherine, Thomas. Michael and Margaret were godparents to Mary and Michael. The godparents of the other children are John O'Keefe and Bridget McNamara (James); Michael (Moyo??) O'Keefe and Anne Grady (John); Thomas Sheehy and Mary McNamara (Timothy); Michael (Moyo??) and Anne O'Keefe (Catherine); Thomas O'Grady and Anne O'Halloran (Thomas).


Hope all that makes sense to someone!

Regards,
Ann




And according to Michael Butler and MargaretMcNamara's marriage certificate, Margaret's father was John McNamara, possibly a farmer/herdsman.   

Offline obbie

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Re: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 December 09 20:02 GMT (UK) »
hi a photo of st cronins church crusheen where your marriage took place .

kilawinna graveyard is 2-300m behind church up the road .

theres an older more ornate graveyard on the ruins of an abbey on inchicronin lake , kinda between crusheen and balyline .

do you think that your butler family were landed gentry part of the landlord butler family ?
if theres any truth to a wagon bringin him from dublin to crusheen also that money was sent from crusheen to the family it would suggest so ?

weather was too bad to look at graves weekend will bring dogs for a stroll and have a wee look ASAP
 census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Hanrahan dublin - brock limerick dublin - farrington wicklow dublin - fagan dublin wicklow - mescall clare u.s.a - heron herring wales england

Offline Ringoroses

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Re: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 08 December 09 20:38 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so so much for doing that, it's very much appreciated.

Quote
do you think that your butler family were landed gentry part of the landlord butler family ?
if theres any truth to a wagon bringin him from dublin to crusheen also that money was sent from crusheen to the family it would suggest so ?

My Nan seemed to think so. She often commented that her father's side were 'well to do' - it was her who mentioned the horse and wagon actually, and that money was sent over. She's also the one who insisted the family were once in possession of a Stone Park House - which perhaps gave her the impression, at least, that her ancestors were well heeled. Sadly, she died two years ago, so I can't veryify any of these things now.

But I'm not sure that 'landed gentry' would be how I'd describe them. From the information I have it seems they were farmers and herdsmen. Perhaps that meant they owned a farmland and cattle, which undoubtedly were assets at the time.  But I doubt they were of the upper classes if that's what you mean. 

By the way, I'm not sure it this means anything at all to you, but I understand from research I have that, after a John MacNamara married a Catherine O'Keefe, the house may eventually have ended up in the hands of the O'keefe family. :-\

Thanks again for taking an interest in my family, it really is appreciated.

Ann




Offline obbie

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Re: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 08 December 09 21:31 GMT (UK) »
no probs , im hoping to meet an old boy in the village whos nosy enough and old enough (nearly) to remember your lot , ill see what he has to say . im a blow in myself only livin here for 28 years ! ive met loads of mcs but butlers seem to have died out . any mention of a house owned by butlers on garlic hill ? there home is dilapadated now just behind me , google garlic and butlers youll get a photo of butler girls turn of the century .
 census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Hanrahan dublin - brock limerick dublin - farrington wicklow dublin - fagan dublin wicklow - mescall clare u.s.a - heron herring wales england

Offline Ringoroses

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Re: Butler's and McNamara's of Crusheen.
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 08 December 09 21:51 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I came across that, on Aughty I think. But I don't think they're any relation to my lot - not to my knowledge anyway. And I'd never heard Nan speak of Garlic Hill.

If the old bloke you're thinking of happens to be called Tom McNamara, perhaps best not ask him - I think he may have come across my family before (Nan met him yonks ago when she visited the place, and a researcher spoke to him a while back on our behalf) and he may start to think we're stalking him!

Ah, 28 years and still a newbie in town no doubt  ;)

Thanks again. Ann