edwin charlesworth, order of st johns of jerusalem

[viewcrest]

Looking for any details to trace family tree, Grandfather Gordon Victor Scott Charlesworth, married Glady Charlesworth (formerly Holmes) and had daughter Muriel Kathleen born 24/12/1920 - my mother)

Trying to trace a uncle Edwin Charlesworth how was an Order of the St John for Jerusalem, which I have photos dated July 1928)

Any help

Thanks
Pete

[Luzzu]

Hi,

Welcome to Rootschat  .

Just to start things off and add a few dates and locations:-

I think this is the family in 1901:-

2 Francis Street, Heckmondwike, Yorkshire

Edwin Charlesworth 40 head dyer finisher's manager
Eliza H Charlesworth 38 wife
Gordon V S Charlesworth 9 son
Milton T Charlesworth 8 son
Hubert O Charlesworth 6 son
Cathleen M W Charlesworth 2 daughter

All born Heckmondwike, Yorkshire with the exception of Eliza who was born in Bradford, Yorkshire

Class: RG13; Piece: 4261; Folio: 90; Page: 12

Gordon's was born in 1892 and his birth registration is:-

Gordon Victor S Charlesworth
Mar 1892
Dewsbury 9b 590

and he married Gladys Holmes in 1915:-

Sep 1915
Gordon V S Charlesworth/Gladys Holmes
Bradford 9b 650

Can't see a possible birth for another child Edwin after 1901?

I think the family were living in Dewsbury in 1911 but again can't see a son, Edwin.  I can see Edwin Senior whose approximate dob is 1861.

1891 Census
Ings? Road, Heckmondwike

Edwin Charlesworth 30 head foreman dye works born Heckmondwike
Eliza Ann Charlesworth 28 wife born Bradford

RG12/3724/97 p 37

and a possible for his birth:-

Jun 1860
Edwin Charlesworth
Dewsbury 9b 502

Have you any more information on Uncle Edwin?  May be a date of birth?

Luzzu

[jorose]

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/
 - refers to, in 1927, a Captain Edwin Charlesworth, late R.A.M.C. (V.), connected to the Venerable Order of the Hospital of Saint John of Jerusalem, in a list of people of which they say:

Under Regulation 28B the undermentioned Honorary Associates are transferred to the
grade of Officer as from the date of the Royal Charter, 12th June, 1926, in their existing order of seniority as Honorary Associates:

This man is probably the same　Captain Edwin Charlesworth as listed in the Times as died Nov 11 1935, aged 75 (of Bridlington).

[Luzzu]

So it was Gordon V S Scott's father that was connected to the Order of St John as the date of death in 1935 aged 75 would give a dob of 1860.

I think this is the reference for his marriage:-

Mar 1888
Charlesworth  Edwin   
Scholey  George Saddler   
Scott  Eliza Ann   
Walch Eliza Annie
Bradford Yorks  9b 231

Two brides with similar first names so if you order the certificate, I would only order it on Edwin Charlesworth's name as if you put the wrong bride's name on the certificate and he married the other one, they won't issue the certificate.  It happened to me once    and although they gave a partial refund, you have to re-order and pay again. 


Pete - do you think there may be an connection with the Freemasons?

Could be on the totally wrong track here  but I think it is worth mentioning.

http://www.rybeck.com/masonic.html

This book was produced in 1910 and there is a picture of an Edwin Charlesworth on page 59.

As you have a photograph of him in 1928 it should be easy to see if it is the same person.  I can see that Charlesworth is/was a popular surname in Yorkshire though

Luzzu

[viewcrest]

Luzzu

What I have at the moment is  2 birth certificates (copies) -
1) one for my mum Muriel Kathleen Charlesworth, born 24th Dec 1920, Croft Bank Birkenshaw, sub-district if Gomersal, county of York; name of father Gordon Victor Scott Charlesworth; name of mother Gladys Charlesworth (formerly Holmes); father occupation, Engineers fitter

2) one for George Victor Charlesworth; born 23 Sept 1887, 172 Akbany Road, sub-district of St George, county of Surrey; name of father Harry Charlesworth; name of mother Harriet Charlesworth (formerly Smith); father's occupation, tobacco cutter. I understood this to be my granddads father, but may be wrong??

Then I have the postcard photographs, which I was to believe were my great grand-father Edwin (or maybe even Edwill??) - who was dressed in his robes as Chaplain & Prelate in the Order of St. Johns of Jerusalem, dated July 1928. Then another postcard/photo stating "in my robes as Chancellor of the Guild of St George". I have attached all 3 photos and they do look like the image on page 59, which seems to be same person!

Yes you are correct I think there is a connection with the freemasons, as my granddad (GVS Charlesworth) did attend the lodge for many years when he emigrated to South Africa in the 60's.

I was not sure that my mum had any brothers or sisters, hence would be very keen to know if any are still around or hear from their side of the family.

Many thanks
Pete

Moderator comment: just a reminder - please ensure that you do not post detailed information about names, dates of birth of people born within the last 100 years who may still be living.  Thanks

[Luzzu]

Hi Pete,

Glad to see you got your topic unlocked.

Anyway, I am really pleased that the chap on page 59 seems to match your postcards.  It looks like he was your great grandad and father of Gordon Victor Scott Charlesworth.

The best way to confirm GVS's parents would be to order his birth certificate:-

Mar 1892
Dewsbury 9b 590

and then after that if Edwin and Eliza Ann are his parents you can order their marriage certificate to confirm the names of their fathers and then you can go further back on the census.

I don't think the George Victor Charlesorth born 1887 in Surrey can be your gt grandad because your grandad was born in 1892.  He could be another relative though.

Just in case you don't know.  The BMD references can be checked on www.freebmd.org.uk and certificates can be ordered from www.gro.gov.uk and cost £7.00 each.

With regard to your mum's brothers and sisters. There are three Charlesworth births on the FreeBMD with Holmes as the mother's maiden name.  They only started included the mother's maiden name after about 1911.  They are for 1917, 1918. and 1921 but they might still be alive so I can't post the details.  You can however do a search yourself on www.freebmd.org.uk

Not sure how you go about finding out if they are still alive but they will be in their 90's if they are.   You could try searching for their marriages and possible deaths.

Best of luck with your research.  You've got quite a lot to go on now.

Luzzu 

 

[winston]

HI

I think as has been stated your grandfather was def' GVS Charlesworth who states his full name on the 1911 census and were living at Croft Villa Gomersal which ities in nicely the address that you say your mums birth was registered under.  Since your grandfather carries the possible surname of Scott then I believe that Edwin did indeed marry Eliza Ann Scott.


Wendy

[winston]

Hi

If we go to the 1911 ooking at the George Victor Charlesworth whose birth cert you do have well he shows up as a Tobacco manufacturer living in Walworth Surrey.  He's married to a lady called Annie Maud Reeves in 1909.  They look to have children bron within the years 1916 to at least 1927 in the  Chelsea district


And just to double confirm your George with father Edwin in my first post has the job of Engineers apprentice.


Wendy

[Luzzu]

Hi Wendy,

Croft Villa, Gomersal fits exactly as that is the address of Edwin Charlesworth in Dec 1910 in the masonic book.

 

Luzzu