looking for Charles abraham bureau's parents born 1859 in gravesend

[andipandi]

i am trying to trace the parents of charles abraham bureau  born 1859 in graves end or at least a link to them

[AMBLY]

Hi andipandi

Welcome to Rootschat !   

Is this the person you are trying to trace?

1881: Bayley Cottages - Monken Hadley,  Barnet, Middlesex
RG11 / Piece: 1369 / Folio: 23 /  Page: 39
Lodger: Charles BUREAU 22, Baker Journeyman, b Gravesend Kent

(Lodging with a Baker named  William Matthews and his family - but Charles is enumerated on his own HouseSchedule number)

If so - has he a connection to  (or do you think he might be) the Charles Abraham BUREAU b abt 1853 Sheerness Kent, who married in Cardiff 1883 to Margaret GRIFFITHS?   This couple being in Aberdare Glamorganshire with Charles Abraham  a  General labourer (1891)  and Colliery Hauler Below Ground (1901)?

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

FreeBMD has no BUREAU  BMD's  in all Kent 1850 to 1901.

There is only:
Charles Abraham BUREAN
BIRTH: Dec Qtr 1852 - Sheppey - 2a, 549

Which is most likely to be birth of the Charles Abraham BUREAU who later married Margaret GRIFFITH and settled in Aberdare, Glam. (Sheerness is within the Sheppey Reg.district)

My guess this is the same Charles BUREAU of the 1881 Census - perhaps William MATTHEWS the head of the house, filled out Charles' and took a bit of a guess on a couple of points (age and pob)

The 1883 marriage cert. of Charles A and Margaret, plus the 1852 birth cert. may both be needed to try clear up a couple of points: 
* To confirm & compare a father's name & occupation on both, if it's recorded.
* For the mother's name on the birth cert.
* For the occupation of Charles A on the marriage - if he was still a Baker, it will tie in to the 1881 Census.

There is this interesting 1851 entry:
1851: 23 Daniel Street - Portsea, Hampshire
HO107/ Piece: 1658/ Folio: 402/ Page: 7/
Head: Charles BUREAU 28,  Seaman R.N. ,  b Quebec, British Subject
Wife: Jane BUREAU 25, b Pembroke, Wales

and a FreeBMD entry:
MARRIAGE  Sep Qtr 1850, Portsea Island  Vol 7, page 192
Charles BUREAU or BUREAN and Jane JONES on the same page

For what it's worth, I think the 1881 and the 1891/1901 Charles are the same person and, I strongly suspect a Services connection whereby Charles' father was in the Army/Navy stationed in Sheerness at the time of Charles' birth.  And that the family may then have moved out of the UK  while the father was stationed or living  abroad, explaining a lack of evidence of the family in the 1861 & 1871 Census.

Cheers
AMBLY

[andipandi]

Tanks AMBLY you have been a good help and certificates have now been sent for.

[AMBLY]

Hi andipandi

Happy New  Year 

I was waiting to see if you confirmed  your main  interest is in Charles Abraham BUREAU b abt 1853 Sheerness Kent, who married in Cardiff 1883 to Margaret GRIFFITHS - who were   in Aberdare Glamorganshire with their family 1891/1901?

If so....I think he is the son Charles BUREAU & Jane JONES found above marrying 1850 and in the 1851 Census. I also think Jane was living with another man named Valentine John BYLES by 1861, had children with him and didn't marry him untill 1875. This theory then places some doubt as to whether the 1881 Charles BUREAU, the Baker,  b abt 1859 Gravesend is your man.

I'll post up what I've found - it may be able to be confirmed or denied by the cert's - particulary the marriage of Charles Abraham BUREAU to Margaret GRIFFITHS if there is anyone on that documnent named BYLES (a witness perhaps, or an address)

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

I think.....Charles Abraham BUREAU b Sheerness Kent 1853 went by the name BYLES in the 1861 and maybe the 1881 Census. It's a bit complicated - but it looks to me as if his stepfather was one Valentine John BYLES who went by his middle name, John - and that he and Jane BUREAU nee JONES didn't marry  until 1875, at least 18 years  after they began living together as man and wife....which infers one of them at least was not free to marry until 1875. Here goes!

MARRIAGE:  Dec Qtr 1875 Bristol, on the same page are these two:
Valentine John BYLES
Jane BUREAU

I don't know for sure  if they did marry each other - but I think they did - I also believe: 
Valentine John BYLES is the same person who first married Lettice JONES, Jun Qtr 1850, Portsea

Lettice BYLES died Sep Qtr 1855, Portsea

The ages they (Valentine and Jane) would be in 1875 if I'm right, would have them both being born in the 1820's.

I was involved in a topic back in 2006 re: Valentine John BYLES' family - he was born 1825 Portsea, Hampshire into a family with Seafaring/Marine background, parents Samuel and Ann BYLES.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,197079.0.html

At the time, I lost track of Valentine John BYLES and never found him on any census. All I found was his birth on IGI and his new wife Lettice with his mother in 1851, no  children with her - he was apparently at sea iat the time. I also suspected he was the same person marrying again in 1875, but didn't really look into it, as the topic was not about him specifically.

Anyway.....by way of your topic, I think Valentine John BYLES is as follows:

1861:  10 Albert Street - Upper Bangor, Bangor, Caernarvonshire, Wales
RG9 / Piece: 4351 / Folio: 75 / Page: 13
Head: John BYLES 36, Coast Guard, b Hampshire
Wife: Jane BYLES 35, b Pembrokeshire
Son: Samuel BYLES 9, b Southsea, Hampshire
Son: Charles BYLES 8, b Sheerness aka Charles Abraham BUREAU??
Son: William BYLES 4, b Landport, Hampshire
Dau: Rosetta BYLES 2, b Bangor, Caernarvonshire
Son: John BYLES 3 months. b Bangor, Caernarvonshire

Theory:
(Samuel is John's son by Lettice JONES?, registered as Samuel Thomas BYLES Sep Qtr 1851 Portsea)
(Charles is Jane's son by Charles BUREAU, registered as Charles Abraham BUREAN Sheppey)
(William is  the first of John & Jane's children : William Valentine BYLES birth registered Jun Qtr 1857, Portsea Island).

This theory puts Charles BUREAU (b Quebec?)  out of the picture by mid 1857 - did he die, disappear at sea or  abandon his wife & son?  Did Jane leave him? The fact Jane and Valentine John didn't marry until 1875 suggests BUREAU may have been  alive , or at least not proved dead, until near 1875?

1871: Cambrean Street - Llanstadwell, Pembrokeshire
Head: John BYLES 46, Porter, b Portsmouth
Wife: Jane BYLES 45, Porters Wife, b Ho-s-?, Pem. (Hoast?) (Hoset) (Coast?)
Son: William BYLES 14, b Portsmouth
Son: John BYLES 10, b Bangor, Car.
Dau: Rosetta BYLES 12, b Bangor, Car.
Dau: Ann BYLES 2, b Bangor, Car.
Dau: Flora BYLES 5, b Neyland
(Can't yet see son Charles BYLES (your C A BUREAU ?) age abt 18 in 1871 - he may've been at sea. Son Samuel BYLES age abt 19 is also not in the 1871).

1881: 15 Cambrian Terrace - Llanstadwell, Pembrokeshire
RG11 / Piece: 5414 / Folio: 38 / Page: 23
Head: John BYLES 56, railway Porter, b Portsea Hants
Wife: Jane BYLES 57, b Cafforn?, Pembrokeshire
Son: Charles BYLES 28, unm, Mariner, b Portsea Hants
Son: John BYLES 20, Engine Fitter, b Bangor, Caernarvonshire
Dau: Annie BYLES 12, Scholar, b Bangor, Caernarvonshire
Dau: Flora BYLES 10, Scholar, b Neyland, Pembrokeshire
Sister-in-Law: Mary JOHN 63,  b Cafforn? Pembrokeshire
Grand-dau: Bessie REES 3, Scholar, b Neyland, Pembrokeshire

(The 1861 Census has son Charles b Sheerness. Is son Charles in 1881 a mistake & he's really Samuel BYLES who was born Hampshire and would have been abt 29 in 1881? This Census conflicts with  that Charles BUREAU age 22, the Baker lodging in Middlesex 1881).  Cannot find Samuel BYLES after 1861 either.)

The other interesting thing is, Jane JONES who I think was became Mrs Charles BUREAU in 1850 and Mrs John Valentine BYLES in 1875 was born Pembrokeshire abt 1821.

Lettice JONES, who became Mrs Valentine BYLES' first wife  in 1850 was born Pembrokeshire abt 1824. Common surname I know, but I wonder if Jane and Lettice were related, sisters even?

Cheers
AMBLY

[PaulaToo]

Oh don't say the Baylis/Byles/Boyles are at it again....

Valentine John  B was the brother on my Mary Ann B
Father Samuel Byles, baptised 27 Feb 1778 in Portsea
Samuel's Mother was Martha Bassett, baptised 14 Apr 1746 in Portsea
and here comes an interesting bit...
Martha's Father was ABRAHAM Bassett who married Mary Symonds 30 Jul 1745 in Portsea.....So Abraham was a family name.

Then there came an unexpected twist for me....
In the 1881 census you have
Sister-in-Law: Mary JOHN 63,  b Cafforn? Pembrokeshire
Grand-dau: Bessie REES 3, Scholar, b Neyland, Pembrokeshire

One of my brick walls is a family called JOHN from Pembroke...
1841 census NEYLAND Pembroke
David John 60
Sarah John 60
Martha 20
Pressilea 17
James 14

Sorry I can't help you in any way, but I shall be keeping a watchful eye on this thread, to be sure

[Bureau]

I have just found loads of information from AMBLY, thank you, and it all makes sense to me now why my grandfather, Tommy Bureau, didn't say much about his father, Charles, - he must also have been confused!

I would love to hear from andipandi because if this is the same Charles Bureau as theirs, then we are obviously related.

[PaulaToo]

A result!
Bureau I am thrilled for you.
Well done.
Sam Byles married Ann Billinger... I have her mother's line back to the 1670s.
Let me know if you are interested.