Author Topic: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY  (Read 24668 times)

Offline Dundee

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 11 April 10 03:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Grumpier,

I have been looking around cyberspace at info on this family, and it is any wonder you are "Grumpier" - they coudn't have made it any harder for you, especially with the extra Baileys and Smiths thrown in! I read a post on the HVG forum which says "only record for the birth was mother black female" - I was thinking that this was something documented at the time, but it is probably just from a contemporary source.  Have you found if Elizabeth and John are included on the 1828 census?   Did John and Elizabeth have children by then? 

I think that with so much work having been done already, it is unlikely (but not impossible) that any documention on Elizabeth's birth will be found. Has anyone in your family considered DNA testing?  It would at least confirm the Aboriginal lineage.

Debra

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Offline mulitai

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 24 July 10 21:09 BST (UK) »
Grumpier,

I am tracking our tree and it leads to John Bailey and Elizabeth Smith. They apparently had 18 children. But when I look on Ancestry.com is seems that most trees get this John Baily confused with John (Squire) Bailey.

"also living in the valley at this time was an unrelated Bailey family. This often caused confusion between the two families, compounded with the fact that the oldest son of this Bailey family was also named John. He was known locally as "Squire" Bailey.
This John Bailey and his brother Thomas were born in England as a result of the marriage of Ann Smith and Thomas Bailey in 1809 in London England" - http://www.saintalbans.org.au/moreinfo.html

So I am wondering do you have any info on the 18 children of John Bailey (specifically his son John Bailey)? I am trying to figure out if the son John Bailey, had a son Frederick Bailey.

Thanks so much

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Offline Monaro Area NSW

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 25 July 10 23:27 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I doubt you will find a birth reg for Elizabeth SMITH if her mother was indigenous.
Baptisms were records by your church of religion (Catholic, Church of England etc).
If Elizabeths mother was indigenous she would not have been a member of any church.

Most early indigenous BDM are unrecorded for that very reason.

Offline majm

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #12 on: Monday 26 July 10 05:25 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

At the NSW BDM online index, there are some baptisms indexed that are obviously associated with indigenous families.  These can be found by simply searching with the surname as "Aboriginal", and of course there's other baptisms indexed where either the father's name or the mother's name is recorded as "Aboriginal".  It may well be that "your" Elizabeth Smith was not baptised until around the time of her marriage banns, so it could be worthwhile checking the parish records in the district where she married John Bailey.   

 As a word of caution, though, those Early Church Records (ECR) that the NSW BDM has indexed, were not civil registrations, which commenced post 1856.  Not all ECRs were forwarded to the NSW BDM when civil registration commenced, and there are plenty of examples where there are extant parish records for B (baptisms), D (burials) M (marriages) that still have not been passed on to the NSW BDM.   

Many of the Parish Records (upon which the ECR's are based) have been microfilmed and are held at (for example) the NSW State Library, in Sydney.  Those films have much more details on them than the ECR transcript certificate based on the NSW BDM - for example the film will often have the occupation/ employer /address of the father, or may actually be on the "illegitimate" list.   

One of the first rules/regulations that Gov Macquarie introduced (Sept 1810) was the recording of Births and Deaths in the Colony.  This was to do with statistical purposes,  including calculating feed/grain for the stores to feed the convicts, the convict guards, and others who were dependent on the  Govt Stores.   Musters, not just of convicts, but "General Musters" were held regularly.  Some of those records are still in existance, so perhaps Elizabeth Smith may be named in one or more of those records too  ;D 

Good luck with your searchings, hope this brief overview helps to advance your own tree.

Cheers,  JM



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Offline reallian

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 02 February 11 09:53 GMT (UK) »
Elizabeth Smith & John Bailey were my 4greats grandparents. Essential reading on any Macdonald Valley families is: "The Forgotten Valley by M. Hutton Neve," Abebooks has it online (it is rare) I'm trying to find out about Aaron Walters or Waters who married Susannah Lalliment. I think he was crew on the Broxbournebury & jumped ship to be with her (she was a convict) but can't find proof, thanks.
M P Thompson, Elizabeth Smith, Susannah Lalliment, Joseph Walters

Offline judb

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 02 February 11 12:33 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat Reallian.

You might do well to start a new thread asking for information about Aaron and Susannah, so that it isn't just tagged on the end of this thread.  There are some very experiecned researchers who would like to help you!

It would be good to include any details you already have such as the names, birthdates of any of their children, their parents' names etc.  I see two possible convict records for Susannah which seem a bit confusing given that the voyage details are different.  ???  I see also the later muster records with Susannah Lillyman on board the Broxbournebury

Susannah Lalbamout [Susannah Lellement]     
Convicted 1 Jul 1812, London, England    
Voyage date: Oct 1812  Ship   Emu       

Susannah Lallamont
Convicted 1 Jul 1812, London
Voyage Date:    Jan 1814 Ship Surrey
Place of Conviction:    London, England

Judith

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Offline sparrett

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 02 February 11 21:13 GMT (UK) »
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 02 February 11 22:41 GMT (UK) »

The death of  a child of the couple.


Reg 3591 In 1909  WALTERS  AARON
  Father AARON
  MotherSUSANNA
  At WEST WALLSEND

Sue   
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Offline reallian

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Re: Elizabeth SMITH and John BAILEY
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 03 February 11 06:13 GMT (UK) »
Thanks will start a new thread on them, reallian.
M P Thompson, Elizabeth Smith, Susannah Lalliment, Joseph Walters