Familys: Andrews and Piper (England)

[Spidermonkey]

1881 census

House 4 16 court Wharf St, St Thomas, B'ham
Thomas Andrew  H  Mar  35  Blacksmith
Mary Ann Andrew  W  Mar  27
Mary Andrew  Dau  11  Scholar
Nancy Andrew  Dau  5  Scholar
Harry Andrew  Son  4
George Andrew  Son  1
Alfred Andrew  Nephew  9  Scholar

All bn Birmingham except Mary Ann bn Wolverhampton

[suzard]

1881 (can be viewed free at familysearch)
Court 26 No1 benacre St Birmingham
Alfred William Piper head M 24 Carpenter Bristol Gloucester
Sarah Ann wife 21 Machinist Birmingham Warwicks
Caroline Celia daughter 4mths Birmingham
Edwin Piper brother U 27 Currier Bristol Glos
William Norris  Cousin 32 M General labourer Bristol Glos
RG11 2981 27 48

Bith reg FreeBMD
Alfred William Piper
Jun qtr 1856
Bristol
6a 6

Suz

[Spidermonkey]

1871 census

Address looks like 5 Five Dwelling, St Phillips, Birmingham
Thomas Andrews  H  Mar  24  Bolt Forger  bn Birmingham
Mary Andrews  W  Mar  22 bn Staffs Wolverhampton
Mary Ann ANdrews  Dau  11mnths  bn Birmingham

RG10; Piece: 3112; Folio: 14; Page: 23

[yonderpeasant]

1901 for thomas and George
13 court     Rea street Birmingham St martin Warks
RG13/2836/145/40
Thomas Andrews head wid  58 wood packing box dealer in own account at home  b.Birmingham Warwickshire
George             son           21                       do

[Spidermonkey]

There are 6 Thomas Andrews marriages in Warwickshire and Staffordshire between 1866 and 1871.  All these are searchable on www.freebmd.org.uk

Speculating, I would think that the marriage in Jun qtr 1869 with Mary Ann Penk on the same page would be the most likely Birmingham  6d 113

[suzard]

1871 Alfred was in a reformatory

1871
Kingswood Reformatory
Oldland
Bitton Somerset
Alfred W Piper Inmate 15 scholar Bristol Glos
(there were quite a lot of 15 yr olds from Glos in the same place)
RG10
2501 42 39

meanwhile Alfred's father had remarried (Alfred's mother died when he was very young) and was living in Bristol
1871
12 Hanover St Bristol
Samuel Piper head M 35 Dyer Bristol
Eleanor wife 28 Cardiff Glam
Edwin son 12 Bristol
Eleanor daughter 7 Bristol
Samuel son 4 Bristol
William son 5mth Bristol
RG10 2535 62 25

Suz

[suzard]

1861
Alfred with father and (what looks like) Grandmother
Woodwill Rd Bristol
Mary Piper head widow 55 Brighton hants
Samuel nson widower 25 Dyer
Sarah daughter U 22 seamstress
George grandson 19 Baker
Elizabeth granddaughter 17 seamstress
Alfred W grandson 4
Frederick H grandson 3
Edwin grandson 2
George S  Grandson 6mth
allexcept Mary b Bristol

RG9 1727 10 14
(wonder if George who was a baker eventually moved  to Notts/Derbys -where in one area Pipers were very well known and high class bakers??)

Suz

[Spidermonkey]

Getting back into the realms of speculation.  Certificates/other evidence needed to confirm the following!!!

Possible Thomas ANdrews on the 1861 census:
John Andrews  Head  Mar  53  Rivet Forger  bn Staffs, Smethwick
Mary Andrews  Wife  Mar  49  bn Worcs Dudley
Emma Andrews  Dau  18  Linen Batton (?) Coverer?  bn Birmingham
Thomas Andrews  Son  15  Bedsteadmaker Iron  bn Birmingham
Alfie Andrews  Son  12  Brassfounder  bn Birmingham

RG9; Piece: 2139; Folio: 63; Page: 21

[suzard]

I agree with spidermonkey - key certificates are needed to confirm (or otherwise!) that is why we put "looks like" "possibly" etc

this looks like the 2nd marriage of Alfred W's father

FreeBMD
Dec qtr 1862
Bristol
on same page
Samuel Piper
Eleanor Richards
6a 256

and a possible marriage for Alfred W's parents
FreeBMD
De3cqtr 1855
Keynsham
on same page
Samuel Piper
Caroline Rogers
5c 1243

possible death reg of AlfredW's mother
FreeBMD
Caroline Piper
Mar qtr Bristol
6a 48

there was the birth reg of Alfred W's brother
George Samuel Piper
Dec qtr 1860
Bristol 6a 50

so possibly mother Caroline died shortly after childbirth

Suz