1891 or 1901 lookup please for thomas in barry

[Kiwi007]

Hi Arranroots,

Maybe you could look up Joseph and Florence in 1891- even if it is just to eliminate them from the mystery

They married in 1888 and may have been living with another clue!

There were only 3 Joseph Thomases in 1901 in Barry - the other 2 don't fit at all

Had a look at the marriage for M C T:

Surname  First name(s)    District  Vol  Page 

~~~~~~~~
Marriages Sep 1907
~~~~~~~~
 
FALCONER  William John    Cardiff  11a 859   
HARDING  Emily Louisa A     Cardiff  11a 859   
HAYES  Rhoda Emily     Cardiff  11a 859   
JONES  Henry     Cardiff  11a 859   
THOMAS  Mary Catherine     Cardiff  11a 859


Worse though -I have just found Joseph's death - he died Sept 1901

Deaths Sep 1901
~~~~~~~~
 
Thomas  Joseph Arthur  39  Cardiff  11a 193

It does seem strange to have a family with so many similar names in one spot

Cheers
Jocelyn

[andy_smed]

Hi Guys, I hope I didn't sound ungrateful. This is the closest I have got to finding her ever so I very much appreciate everything you have done for me.

Jocelyn, I ruled out the family of joseph and florence although it sounded so good simply because Mary was married in 1907 but the census you had would have made her to young at this time.

Arranroots, have not ruled out the first family you suggested as yet because after a conversation with my mother this morning she seems to think that the name David was a name in the Thomas family, am going to see her tonight to try and squeeze any more info from her. I will also have a close look at the marriage cert again when I get home.

The help is invaluable guys.

Thanks again

Andy

[andy_smed]

Sorry Guys, after printing out these posts I can now see that the other Joseph Thomas and Florence are also a possibility. It would obviously depend on Mary Catherine not being at the home in 1901 and Bessie being another sibling. Will chat to my mum and see if Bessie rings any bells.

Also wondering whether it is worth having a look at "one aged 14 is in Penderry, GLAM as a general servant."

Cheers

Andy

[Arranroots]

Hi Andy and Jocelyn

I found Florence and Joseph in 1891, in St Andrew's (?between Barry and Penarth)

Joseph THOMAS 29 b Penlline, Glam (?)
Florence Theresa 23 b St Andrew's
Leslie Herbert H 1 b ditto
Jane mother 69 b ditto

No sign of a daughter. 

I searched for Joseph THOMAS in Barry (none)

JT in Glam (221)

of these Head of Household (64) then narrowed it down geographically.

The only ones near Barry had either no children or the wrong flavour or not called anything remotely like Cassie? Mary Catherine.

Will try the Penderry MCT now...

Arranroots

[Arranroots]

I looked at Mary THOMASes aged 3, 4 or 5 in 1891.  I selected (I had to, there were so many!!) the ones with middle initial C or who appeared to have a geographical connection with the Barry area.

I also looked at the 2 Mary A THOMAS in Penderry (Swansea)
1) parents David and Ann
2) parents Thomas and Mary
neither had siblings to match yours

There was a 5 year old Catherine Mary in Ystradyfodwyg, parents David and Sarah

5 year old Caroline Mary in Swansea, parents John and Catherine.

There were about 200 in all, so not time to check them all, sorry!

I'm guessing you don't have MCT's birth cert, but do you have her marriage cert?  or if you know her married name you could look on freebmd or 1837 online and order it.  At least you would be certain of her father's name.

You could also look for suitable births of her siblings, especially with unusual names like Leslie, which would give their mother's name and place of birth for the child.

Arranroots 

[Arranroots]

Widened the scope a bit and found these

RG12/4454 5 82 22            Lower Coyty

Joseph THOMAS 37
Rachel 37
David Arthur 8
Mary Catherine 6 born Bridgend
John Lewis 5
Martha Adeline 3

RG12/4457 4 67 3             Margam (in g'parents' home)

Thomas THOMAS 20
Mary Jane 22
Mary Catherine 8 months born Duffryn Mill

RG12/4358 25 6 5            Bedwellty

George Rees THOMAS 28
Mary Ann 24
Ivar 17 (not sure he is same household??)
Mary Catherine 3 born Elaneth, Carmarthenshire
Harriet Lilian 9 months

Not sure whether this helps, but at least you have a more complete picture!

Arranroots

[Kiwi007]

Hi Andy,

I found your post from last month and see you listed 6 siblings for MCT:

George, Lillian, Leslie, Thomas, Benjamin and Gladys.

I think we need a few more facts - Thomas is such a common name ( I have 2 lines in my family!) and it takes a long time sifting through the possibilities, so hopefully you will find the marriage cert.

Cassie may have been visiting someone in 1901 so wouldn't necessarily show up in a Thomas  family unit

What is Cassie's married name?

The marriage cert gives both father's occupation and sometimes the witnesses give clues.

As there were so many Mary Catherine Thomases b GLA, it is important to find out how you came by the Cert - if someone ordered it, they may have the wrong one!

What DOB's do you have for her children?

I guess if Joseph died in 1901 there were no more children  so the J & F family must be wrong ( maybe one more after the Census )

Anyway, I'll now wait for details from the Marriage cert I think !!

Cheers
Jocelyn

[andy_smed]

Hi Jocelyn,

The marriage cert is the orginal one  it has come from my grandfather to my mother and then to me. the marriage took place at Cardiff Registery Office on 5 Sept 1907 She married William John Falconer her age at this time on the certificate is 20. Their first child was Emma Elizabeth born in 1908, William John Jnr was born in 1909 and four other children after this, Lillian, Edna, Iris and Catherine.

MCT's father according to the cert was a coal trimmer, and although the name is difficult to make out as the cert has been slightly damaged over time I am sure it reads Joseph.

William Johns father was the Lockgate Keeper at Barry Docks, his name was Charles Falconer. William was 28 at the time of the marriage.

I can only make out one witness, that is E M Thomas.

I am just wondering as this is the first time for a long time I have looked into this whether being married in 1907 and having a baby in 1908 plus being married in a registry office whether it may have been a shotgun wedding. Which also unfortunately means that she may not have been 20?

Thanks again, this line has been plaguing me for ten years. I had hoped the 1901 census would help. Feel sorry for me though as my surname is Smith.

Thanks both

Andy

Just an added addition I dont know if it will help but William Falconer's father Charles was married to an Emma McDonald, just wondering whether based on naming children that maybe Mary's mother was Elizabeth? What do you think?

[Arranroots]

That thought had occurred to me: Elizabeth would make sense.  Now all we have to do is find one!! LOL

Will have a look for the FALCONERs in 1891 just in case...

You know what they say about a marriage before the birth of a child?  "There's posh!!"   

Will look to see how many MCTs were born in 1887 or thereabouts, but suspect it will be in double figures.  And we can't be sure where until we find her for certain on a census or something.

2011??

Arranroots