Minimum acceptable proof

[dobfarm]

IGI familysearch is an index intended for their ref number to order a film of original copies at their family history centres
Also submissions by their members again only to assist but are a start point

Submissions as said need to be checkout! but are or give a date in-itself is better than no date to work from, as libraries do free 1/2 lookups for known dates with copies sent of the original entries on microfilm or fiche for about 50p to a £1 with a SAE -These submissions are invaluable even if there are odd wrong ones.

Read LDS info

Keep it simple! for beginners! anyone can write long  essays about how to complicate issues

Dobby

[behindthefrogs]

The IGI is basically an index of people who have been "bound" to the Church of the Latter Day Saints so that they will be resurrected on judgement day.  (I know its a lot more complicated than that)

The reference to films etc are for the purpose of showing their sources.  Fortunately these are made available to and are useful to family historians.

David

[charlotteCH]

Digihound, You life as a journo [investigative ?] is great preparation for family history

David's comment about being aware /cautious of secondary sources is very true-and then there are transcription errors- a whole topic in itself. As he very correctly says, go to the films that lie behind the IGI and check them out yourself.
 Some web sites- especially subscription ones as against FHS sites where there are dedicated knowledgeable transcribers- need to be treated with great care. They can be a helpful start but the info needs to be verified.

A comment earlier on the thread that one cannot cross reference pre 1837 parish entries,  as a blanket statement is not correct.   There can be parish chest data that ties together parish reg info. There can be family letters/ books with inscriptions/ etc.  In the parish regs marriage witnesses can  indicate a possible family tie- from that one must move slowly to establish the relationship.  And so on.....

Further, if the pre 1837 parish reg entry is within striking distance of census, it's possible to find cross references to the parish info there in census data and on marriage certs where witnesses are present. One just has to probe very carfefully and patiently and set rigorous standards of objectivity.

Perhaps a succinct summing up of the question originally posed might be: criminal law standard of proof or civil law standard?

And digihound, your very name is the way to go

charlotte

[dobfarm]

Digihound, You life as a journo [investigative ?] if great preparation for family history .....double/triple check your references,  verify your sources.

David's comment about being aware /cautious of secondary sources is very true-and then there are transcription errors- a whole topic in itself. As he very correctly says, go to the films that lie behind the IGI and check them out yourself.
 Some web sites- especially subscription ones as against FHS sites where there are dedicated knowledgeable transcribers- need to be treated with great care. They can be a helpful start but the info needs to be checked further.

A comment earlier on the thread that one cannot cross reference pre 1837 parish entries is not correct.   There can be parish chest data that ties together parish reg info. There can be family letters/ books with inscriptions/ etc.  In the parish regs marriage witnesses can  indicate a possible family tie- from that one must move slowly to establish the relationship.  

Further, if the pre 1837 parish reg entry is within striking distance of census, it's possible to find cross references to the parish info there in census data and on marriage certs where witnesses are present. One just has to probe very carfefully and patiently and set rigorous standards of objectivity.

And digihound, your very name is the way to go

charlotte

Partly true as parish chest but! these are very limited!

As to witnesses at marriages with people who have very common surnames for example there could be Ellen Smith witness to John Smith marriage, so is she his Mother- sister-sister in law-aunty- cousin or his ex school teacher with no family connection or a neighbour also could be the resident church warden/clerk would signs as witness. With them using very common first names like Joe, William, John, Sarah or Mary etc.  I would say this is very thin ice.

The census info with late 1700's birth from old age given on the 1841-51-61 census can be checked but if there a a few entries about the same year as the census circa age - which one?

Knowing about LDS Mormon reasons for having their index is less important than the dates and info in their index to the family tree builder.

Dobby

[dobfarm]

The other problem with the sites that dobfarm is quoting is that they are secondary sources and not originals.  In particular the IGI even for extracted entries must be treated with caution. 

David

This is absolute!  as to finding original source as IGI use Bishops transcriptions that's were copies of the church register sent to the bishop periodically and open to errors.



Great caution is need and above post is sound advice for anyone.

Dobfarm

[charlotteCH]

Marriage witnesses [or informants on death certs] can certainly be possible sources of info and for cross referencing if used correctly.
An intelligent approach to a marriage register is to look at the adjacent pages to see who the witnesses are- when a name keeps cropping up as a witness, then it is best disregarded as the witness on  duty, so to speak- a parish regular or employee who helps out as a witness when needed
That said, if the witnesses names are not parish employees it is possible that they could give leads.  One takes every possible lead and then tests it.  If nothing shows up at the time, store it away with the source noted in case it crops up again.

There are other pre-civil reg sources that are originals...such as  army records and tax records.  Toni* on RC is a five star expert on tax records going way back and she's intellectually rigorous in her standards of research.

Many ways to probe provided one is very focused and discerning about the results.

charlotte

[Guy Etchells]

IGI familysearch is an index intended for their ref number to order a film of original copies at their family history centres
Also submissions by their members again only to assist but are a start point

Submissions as said need to be checkout! but are or give a date in-itself is better than no date to work from, as libraries do free 1/2 lookups for known dates with copies sent of the original entries on microfilm or fiche for about 50p to a £1 with a SAE -These submissions are invaluable even if there are odd wrong ones.

Read LDS info

Keep it simple! for beginners! anyone can write long  essays about how to complicate issues

Dobby

No the IGI is an index of the ordinances of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
These ordinances (Baptism, Endowment and Sealing) may be seen my by using a password on the online version of the IGI (otherwise redacted) or in columns B.E. & F. on the microfiche versions.
http://anguline.co.uk/igi.jpg
Cheers
Guy

[dobfarm]

Hi Guy

Its new to me this! once one has signed in what is route in the website to find these records on family search as your link or is it the S*ciety of Gen*alogists subscription website access to IGI.

http://www.ancestor-search.info/SRC-IGI.htm#access


 Dobby

[behindthefrogs]

Prior to 1837 and even more so prior to 1812 cross referencing is no longer available on a plate.  However in those days it was impossible to do almost anything without obtaining appropriate permission.  There are many records both from the parish chest and also the various courts which help to prove relationships.  They are different for the poor and the not so poor as the former will be receiving while the latter will be taxed in some way.

Even simple statements in church accounts can prove gold dust.  For example: paid William Matthews and his son William for the wood and repairs to the church roof the sum of 5s, was one item of confirmation that my ancestor William who was a carpenter in the 1851 census was the son of William another carpenter.

David