Thomas Wade from Lancashire

[MaryA]

I have a feeling that the connection between your Catherine and Thomas is

marriage of Caroline Wade to Matthew Whitelock Knowles - 1875 St Michael's Aughton

[tilly25]

Thanks Mary for putting me on the right line and for giving me the pointers for my further research at the library.

Judy

[MaryA]

I wondered if you wanted me to look for anything else. 

1881 South View, Southport Road, Ormskirk, Lancashire
John J Behn Head M 28 Wholesale Grocer Lancashire Everton
Mary J Wife M 29 " Ormskirk
Mary C daur 2 " "
Margaret Smith? daur 10 months " "
Mable B Knowles Visitor 4 " Maghull
RG11; Piece:  3755; Folio:  36; Page:  17

Death of Mathew Whytelock Knowles Q4 1879 West Derby 8b 484 Age 33.

Caroline must have farmed out her children while she and young baby were being looked after, after Matthew's death.

1881 58 Selborne Street, Toxteth Park, Lancashire
James A Booth Head M 37 Commercial Clerk in General Merchants Trade Wales Llangollen (Dumb)
Elizabeth Wife M 37 Lancashire Liverpool
Amy M daur 7 Scholar " Manchester (Lame)
Gertrude E daur 5 " " "
Ethel M daur 3 Lancashire Town Green
Norah daur 2 " "
Caroline Knowles Sister in Law Widow 31 no occupation " Walton
Elizabeth Knowles Niece 11 months " Southport
Mary C Thomas Servant S 17 Domestic Servant Cheshire Seacombe
RG11; Piece:  3648; Folio:  96; Page:  55

1891 36 Derby Road, North Meols, Lancashire
Thomas H Wade Widower 75 Living on own means Yorkshire Armley
Caroline Knowles Widow 40 Lancashire Walton
Mabel " Granddaur 14 Scholar " Maghull
John " Grandson 12 " " "

It may be just coincidence but there is living two houses away in No. 33
Rose Knowles Head Wid 50 Company House Keeper Lancashire Bolton
Jane Kingcade Sister S 48                                             " "
RG12; Piece:  3036; Folio  53; Page  13

I believe that these census entries would confirm the relationships that you were looking for.

[tilly25]

 Many thanks for all your hard work.

Judy

[tilly25]

Hi Mary

I just thought i would try and sort out some of the queries.

Thomas Henry Wade married Elizabeth Hughes 4/6/1842 West Derby daughter of Roger Hughes. I was initially looking for this Elizabeth Lewis neice thinking it could be on the wifes side.

Now I have confused myself looking on IGI.

Thomas Wade born 1791 Liverpool Married Isabella around 1810 Liverpool she was also born 1791.

Had the following children
Isabella 1811 all born Liverpool
Samuel 1821
Thos 1821
Elizabeth 1827
Catharine 1829

But also on  IGI thomas Wade parents of Catherine Ann Wade christening 29 sep 1829 St Peter, Liverpool (this is my Catharine

[tilly25]

But also on  IGI  Thomas and Elizabeth Wade parents of Catherine Ann Wade christening 29 sep 1829 St Peter, Liverpool (this is my Catharine)

We initially thought that Thomas has married twice but could they be 2 different families now.

Have had another look at Catherine Ann Wades married certificate and the other witness could be Saml Wade, which again brings us back Thomas Wade with 5 children.

Judy

[MaryA]

According to the IGI Thomas Wade married Isabella WADE about 1810. 

This entry has the notation "Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church."

There is also another entry that states Thomas Wade married Ann WADE about 1810.  ALSO a User Submitted entry.

This user has provided absolutely no proof whatsoever of the marriage, no exact date, no church, not even a surname for the so called bride.  In other words the probability is that this user has looked at the 1841 census without due care and made an assumption that Isabella was Thomas's wife. 

They have also posted the births of the children, with the dates "about" in each case, once again giving absolutely no proof whatsoever except their own say so.

As far as I see it the clues that you have are from the marriage certificate of Catherine - including probably her brother Samuel who is witness.  Her family are staying with her other brother Thomas, and these are all linked together in the 1841 family, where it is suggested that the eldest person, apart from father Thomas, is Isabella who (as ages are rounded down in the 1841 census) can be at most 35 years old and the next eldest, presuming he is Thomas's child is young Thomas who is 20+ years old.  I believe it highly unlikely that Isabella will be the mother of young Thomas, so very likely another sibling.

The Online Parish Clerk's site has a marriage TRANSCRIBED from the Parish Register.  This information is more more reliable, although should still be verified by you  by sight of the actual entry.
Marriage: 4 Jun 1842 St Augustine, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Henry Wade - Full Book Keeper Batchelor of Liverpool
Elizabeth Hughes - Full Spinster of Field St
    Groom's Father: Thomas Wade, Inn Keeper
    Bride's Father: Roger Hughes, Inn Keeper
    Witness: Margaret Thompson
    Married by Licence by: T Tattersall Minister
    Register: Marriage 1837 - 1860, Page 44, Entry 88
    Source: LDS Film 1656013

I believe the occupation of both groom and his father confirm that we have the right family in the 1841 census.  You should also confirm this by means of the birth certificate of one of the children.

Again from the Online Parish Clerk site you can check the baptisms of two of the children

Baptisms: 9 Jan 1845 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Wright Wade - Child of Thomas Henry Wade & Elizabeth
    Abode: Mill Rd Everton
    Occupation: Book Keeper
    Baptised by: Tho. MacGill Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1844 -1846, Page 16, Entry 128
    Source: LDS Film 93884

Baptisms: 4 Feb 1847 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Bateson Wade - Child of Thomas Henry Wade & Elizabeth
    Abode: Mill Rd Everton
    Occupation: Book Keeper
    Baptised by: A J Tomlin Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1846 - 1847, Page 357, Entry 2851
    Source: LDS Film 93885

Unfortunately the baptisms don't give Elizabeth's surname but it's fairly easy to be sure about the entry for John Bateson Wade birth Q4 1846 West Derby 20 982 which will confirm his mother's name.

[tilly25]

Thanks for the clarification on IGI records.

I have looked for another Catherine Ann Wade for 1851 census and haven't found one that would fit year of birth etc

Judy

[MaryA]

A huge clue that you have from Thomas Junior is his place of birth - Armley.

The IGI does indeed have a Thomas Henry Wade christened 14 December 1815   Armley, Yorkshire, parents Thomas Wade and Elizabeth.

This is an entry transcribed from the parish register.  Unfortunately there are no transcriptions for Thomas Wade's marriage in Armley.

Isabella is still a bit of a mystery, she could be either the eldest child or a second wife, but I don't believe she is the mother of the other children.

I have looked for another Catherine Ann Wade for 1851 census and haven't found one that would fit year of birth etc

See my first post on the first page - Catherine is with brother Samuel and his family which is why I thought the clincher was that he was witness to her marriage.