Shaw/Byrne, Tullyorior, Co. Down

[mickwally]

Well I have already checked the Annaclone graveyard and there is defiantly no sign of John's grave unless he could be one of the unmarked gravestones that there is. He could also be buried in old Ardbrin graveyard as that's where they buried people during the 1700s - 1800s. Although you could be right he might be buried in Magheral graveyard but it is unlikely as it's at the other end of the parish, Annaclone would be closest to the shaw family. We have all the names of those who are buried there anyway so I will check them just incase. That John Shaw that was at the special meeting which was held most likely was your relative. The William Shaw however, is probably not related and would be part of a different shaw family. Part of Tullyorior townland belongs to Annaclone civil parish and the other half is in garvaghy parish. Just the same as there is another Shaw mentioned at Ballynanny school but again this was a different family. Its really great to hear from people like yourself that belong to families that once lived here & now have emigrated. We have sent many books to the 4 corners of the world to different people seeking info. I was wondering do you know of any other societies in Australia that might have people like yourself who wish to find out about their relatives in Ireland? I was just thinking if there was then maybe you could past on our details and we would be more than glad to help them out if we could. There won't be any extra info. in the next book it is mainly just extra photos that people came forward with after we had printed the book.

Hope to hear from you again soon
Michael

[AussieGaz]

Hi Mick

Still reading through the book which is so fascinating.

A year or so ago, you mentioned you were going up to take a picture of the two "house"s still to be seen in Shawtown.

Did you ever get around to doing so, as it would be fascinating to see them?

regards

Gaz

[AussieGaz]

Hi Mick

Just on annual leave and a great time to catch up on my research and see what I might have missed and what new pearls I can unearth.

In a previous post, you asked if I could spread the word to organisations / associations / magazines I know about with regards your Annaclone Historical Society.

Just FYI, I sent your webpage information and also an outline of your book to the editors of the following Australian groups who print magazines:

Australian Family Tree Connections,
Genealogical Society of Queensland, and also
Australia and New Zealand Inside History Magazine.

Hope something comes of it for yourselves.

Gary

[DonalJ]

I am interested in the Burns/Byrne connections in Tullorior, Co. Down and indeed in all of Co. Down.  Griffiths Valuation shows many Burns families in this townland.  There seem to be a large number of my Burns family who are descended from the Byrnes of Co. Wicklow.  My own family is from Belfast where I was born and I have proven through DNA that I am descended from the Leinster Byrnes.  My first question is about Byrnestown which is shown in the OS maps of Griffiths and even on more modern OS maps in the 1940s. Does anyone know anything about the history of this "town" or where I might look for more information?  I am attaching a map showing the Burns who are listed in Tullyorior in Griffiths.  The locations are accurately located in GIS.  Thanks for anyone's help in advance. 

[AussieGaz]

I will try and see what I can unearth on the County Down Byrnestown, however just FYI, in Queensland, Australia there is also a Byrnestown. Lore has it that in 1893 forty Irish settlers were given a parcel of land to support a cooperative settlement. Brimming with utopian optimism, courage and a small amount of financial support from the Queensland government they ventured to a place so unlike Ireland.

[DonalJ]

Hello AussieGaz!

I was delighted to hear from you and have read the entire correspondence about the Shaw family with great interest, including the existence of Shawstown and Kearneystown.  And yes I was aware of the great social experiment that was done at the Australian Byrnestown.  I discovered the Co. Down version by accident on an OS map as I was doing GIS on Burns families.  Suddenly there it was on a 1940s OS map and it is recorded on 1867 Griffiths maps.  Then I did a search and found the wonderful story of the Aussie version.  But there was no obvious connection between the two.  My feeling was that the utopian experiment (as you so aptly labelled it!) happened with Irish families who were already in Australia, although Byrnes were involved.  If you could find a direct connection to Down that would be something!

I have been trying to find a familial connection between my Belfast Burns, the Co. Down Burns and the Byrnes of Wicklow.  There are lots of clues, including wills, oral traditions and now DNA data that shows the connection for sure.  The most famous Byrne was Fiach McHugh O'Byrne of the late 16th century who was a firebrand in opposition to English occupation of Ireland.  Some Byrnes were in quite a bit of trouble after his assassination in 1597 and may have moved north then or after the Battle of Kinsale in 1603. 

A couple of centuries later other Byrnes were involved in the 1798 rebellion in Dublin and Co. Wicklow. And there was also strong support in the north for a degree of independence because of the suppression of economic growth of Belfast by England.  As a result of the various uprisings two of the Byrnes were executed, one in Dublin and one in Wicklow town and both were called William.  There is a classic statue to Billy Byrne in the center of modern Wicklow.  He was much admired, just 24 years old and 6 feet 6 inches tall.  Perhaps there was more northern migration then.

Previously I have noticed the folk around Banbridge are really interested in their past and have gone to great lengths to document the various graveyards in the area, and also church records of all denominations.  My hope is that some local lore might help in finding a few facts about the settling of Tullyorior (or elsewhere) by so many Byrne/Burns families.  In some respects it may have been regarded as a safer place since it is protected to the north by the Bann river and transportation was possible through a branch railway running along the Bann from Banbridge.

There are a few more interesting facts, but I better stop here.

Regards.

[CalicoCat124]

Hello,
   I am new to Rootschat. I have Byrnes/Burns/Byrns roots in Tullyorior. My great grandmother was Ann Jane Byrns (b~1825, died 1875 in Banbridge). She was married to Hugh McCourt. I have not been able to find a marriage record for them, or a birth/baptism record for Ann Jane. They were Catholic.
   I have been working on family genealogy for over 50 years. DNA matches are finally breaking down some of my brickwalls. I have several DNA matches to folks descended from Edward Ogle Byrnes (B~1815 and Married to Catherine Clarke), John Henry Byrns (B~1827 and married to Agnes Lennon, Dina Byrns (B 1881 and married to Josepg O'Dowd), and Patrick Burns (b ~1820 and moved to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA). I think these may all be my great grandmother's brothers.
   I see on the map that someone has posted where the farms of Edward Ogle Burns, Dina Burns, and John Burns are located in Tullyorior. Thank you so much for posting that!

   Does any one have any connection to these Burns/Byrns/Byrnes families? I would love to find out who my great grandmother's parents were.

Thanks you. 

[AussieGaz]

Hello CalicoCat124
Replying from Brisbane, Australia
Just been into RootsChat after some years and saw your post.
I haven't really researched the Bryne's ide of the family to be honest, however have found these little bits of info that mentioned the name.
1803 Agricultural Census
This agricultural census was taken in 1803 and although the amount of information from each parish varies, it is a very useful source from an early date. The returns for the parish of Garvaghy were examined and information relating to our family was found in the townland of Tullyorior. There were however three different sections which had townland names which may have been alternative spellings of Tullorier.

The first was Tullyory. At the time of the first Ordinance Survey the local pronunciation was [Tul-ly-‘o-ry], appearing in written form on a local tombstone: Tullyory (1810) in Annaclone graveyard.  In this townland were found six Byrns – Val. Byrns, […]ilmore Byrns, John D […]ason Byrns, John ea[…] Byrns, […]ell Byrns and Arthur Byrns. We do not know the name of our Anne Byrnes father, although it is possible that it was one of these men.

We know that Garrett Valentine Byrne was connected to our family and Val. Bryns is probably short for Valentine Bryns. The 1803 Agricultural Census tells us that he had one oxen, five cows, two pigs, one riding horse, two draft horses, two cars (or carts), 700 bushels of oats, 20 loads of hay, 40 loads of straw and 40 sacks of potatoes, so he was quite a prosperous farmer.

The next townland heading was Tullyorey. At the time of the first Ordinance Survey this spelling in written form was found on one local tombstone: Tullyorey (1778) in Seapatrick graveyard. There were two Bryns in this section – Patrick Byrns and […]arrance Byrns as well as Mark Shaw. Mark Shaw had three cows, one pig, 60 bushels of oats, nine loads of straw and 20 sacks of potatoes.

Finally there was a townland section where the whole name could not be read because of how the book wad bound. The townland ended---rey. This townland has six Byrns – Edwd, Patrick, Edward, Bryne, Edwd., and John. There were also five Shaw’s listed – P[…]etter, Thomas, Patrick, Mark and Michael.

Not sure if any of this has any connection whatsoever to "your" Brynes, however thought I would share it

All the best

Gary