Author Topic: 8th Devon Regiment  (Read 8170 times)

Offline merilyn64todhunter

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
8th Devon Regiment
« on: Sunday 24 January 10 11:57 GMT (UK) »
Re: Charles William Sclater Born Exeter 13 March 1862 Died West Australia 7 May 1948

I have a photo which has on the back "Private C W Sclater 8th Devon Regiment".  We know he was in Africa in some military or police capacity as we have a photo of him there, but we don't have dates or other information. We know he arrived in Australia in March 1915. So although we believe he didn't take part in WWI he may have joined up and then changed his mind to come to Australia. I can't find out whether the 8th Regiment was formed prior to WWI. Was it this regiment which went to Africa? Or did it only form for WWI?

Can anyone throw any light on the 8th Regiment?
Thankyou, Merilyn

Offline sharon30

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Devon Regiment
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 04 February 10 10:55 GMT (UK) »
not sure if this website might
www.1914-1918.net
DEVON- martin, huxtable, morrish, pugsley,willis, melhuish, langworthy.
KENT- doughty
NORFOLK- Drage
PEMBROKESHIRE/ glamorgan- thomas
NSW, AUSTRALIA- doughty, shaw
USA- duckham, benskin

Offline terryleaman

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Devon Regiment
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 04 February 10 21:20 GMT (UK) »
Any possible connection to Director of the South African Museum, Dr. W.L. Sclater? during 1890s.
Stark, Arthur C. & Sclater, W.L. Authors of "The birds of South Africa".
Hooper- Torquay & Exbourne
Stevenson- Plymouth & Lincolnshire
Vivian- Cornwood & London

General Torquay local history- OPC for Torquay


Offline merilyn64todhunter

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Devon Regiment
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 06 February 10 09:23 GMT (UK) »
No, what a shame! Thanx anyway Merilyn

Offline Janmay

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Devon Regiment
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 17 July 10 12:16 BST (UK) »
I found this on this site ---http://www.1914-1918.net/devons.htm

8th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Exeter on 19 August 1914 as part of K1 and attached as Divisional Troops to 14th (Light) Division.
May 1915 : left Division and landed at Le Havre 26 July 1915.
4 August 1915 : attached to 20th Brigade, 7th Division.
Moved with the Division to Italy in November 1917.
Sweetland, Turl, Stamp, Fowler, Solway, --Devon
Bowditch, Spiller, Marsh, Trask--Dorset
Chapman, Dickins, Mathews, Wood, --Northants
Hawkins, Thorpe, Barber, Cummins,---Hampshire

Offline merilyn64todhunter

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Devon Regiment
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 18 July 10 03:54 BST (UK) »
Thank you! another piece of the jigsaw!
Merilyn

Offline AdrianB38

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Devon Regiment
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 18 July 10 13:24 BST (UK) »
I would be dubious that your Charles was in the 8th (Service) Battalion of the Devonshires. Given that he would be about 52 when war broke out, he seems to be substantially over-age. The 1916 Act "conscripted" all males up to age 41 (i.e. born 1875 onwards) and I don't see anything to suggest that people would have stayed on much beyond that even if they were already in the Army.

Trouble is - I can't come up with an alternative explanation for you of what "8th Devon Regiment" might mean. Sometimes the number refers to the old pre-name number of the regiment but the Devonshires were the 11th or North Devon Regiment. Alternatively "8th Devon Regiment" means the 8th battalion of the Devonshire Regiment - which is what's been mentioned above.

There's a web-page in http://web.archive.org/ that lists the following Volunteer and Militia etc.  Battalions for the Devonshires:
Territorials and Volunteers:
      1st (Exeter and South Devon) Volunteer Battalion [1881-1908]
      2nd (Prince of Wales's) Volunteer Battalion [1881-1908]
      3rd Volunteer Battalion [1881-1908]
      4th Volunteer Battalion [1881-1908]
      5th (The Hay Tor) Volunteer Battalion [1881-1908]
      4th Battalion [1908-1958]
      5th (Prince of Wales's) Battalion [1908-1939, 1947-1950]
      6th Battalion [1908-1947]
      7th (Cyclist) Battalion [1909-1920]

Militia and Special Reserve:
      3rd Battalion (South Devonshire Regiment of Militia) [1881-1908]
      3rd Battalion [1908-1953]
      4th Battalion (1st or East Devon Regiment of Militia) [1881-1908]
      
As you can see - no 8th battalion before WW1. Nothing comes up for him in the Medal Index Cards on Ancestry so it seems to me that he never served overseas in WW1. It might be that he served in some role in the UK in the 8th during WW1 but that still doesn't get round him being over-age. I take it you're absolutely certain it says "8th"?

Sorry to be a bit negative...

My only other suggestion is that you could go to the forum for that http://www.1914-1918.net site which is on http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/  and post the picture asking if anyone can confirm it to be a 1914-18 era picture (I'm assuming he's in uniform!) because it says what it says on the back which doesn't seem to make sense for his age. Maybe you might ask for opinions on whether he might be serving at that age. (Obviously he might have lied about his age).

Offline gjatdp

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Devon Regiment Boer war?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 01 October 10 14:11 BST (UK) »
I too have a copy of that photo, Charles Sclater was my Grandfathers brother, Like most other members of the family he was a nurseryman in Exeter. Here are a few notes about him written down by cousin Lilian just before she died in Australia. I've also attached a couple of pictures of Great Uncle Charles.
Hope this is of some help
regards Gerald


Written notes from Granny Stewart (Lillian Sclater) born 1893
“Great Uncle Harry held the Alaxandra Nurseries, in the select part of town & I always saw him dressed in a frock coat & Top Hat carrying gloves & or an umbrella – Grandfather Edward MD Sclater lived as a farmer and wore a black suit & a round broad brimmed hat – like a clergymans. I think they called them Jim Crow hats. & held the South devon nurseries in the suburbs (I loved that house & dream of it now. I’ll try to describe it later on) When they [I presume granny means Charlotte and Edward- Merilyn] the sons took over the Exeter nurseries (Grandy & his brother, that was)  [that is Charles William and Harry] in partnership. But the family seemed ill-fated. G Uncle Harry Died childless. The South African war broke up the other 2. The old house was burned down one night, my Grandfather [Edward - Merilyn] dropped dead of a heart attack & so Grandmother Charlotte sold the land for building sites and took a smaller place with her 2 sons (the third son was a no-hoper & married & 2 or 3 young daughters (the eldest was married already). The youngest was a playmate of mine. Lorna she died of consumption (now tuberculosis) at the age of 16 Damn old memories I’ve had enough for one session & more anon, Perhaps.”
“The Sclaters were the foremost nurserymen of Exeter (a Devon City) There were a couple of Jewish sounding surnames names brought into the family by marriage for I remember a cousin Charlie Isaac and an aunt or a great aunt Elizabeth Abrahams – but they were not close to us exactly. (see NB.)
When my Dad and Mam quarrelled she would say that Dad’s mother Margaret  drank herself to death. The story seems to have been started by an old gossiping family nurse and a jealous 2nd wife. I do not believe it on the evidence it looks as tho grandmother Margaret must have suffered some prolonged illness as she died young about 36 or 37 and was in bed ill for a long time before she died. (Her sister Charlotte nursed her) and later married Grandfather.”
  

Other info:

Charles William was in Africa during the Boer war. He was a sergeant, I think, and possibly stayed on afterwards.

Charlotte is said to have been pregnant before her marriage to Edward MD, possibly even before Margaret died. The children of Margaret and Charles are said to have smashed up things in the house on the day of their wedding, but things must have eased as per living arrangements on the census sheets.

Ada Yelland was pregnant before her marriage to Charles William – he refused to marry her until quite late in the pregnancy. The baby died prem.

Addresses:
I have many addresses for the Sclaters. I always thought they stayed put in St Thomas, maybe they went on vacation a bit, or maybe it was Lillian and Donald working on farms, I don’t know. I guess if Charles was away they may move to relatives homes…?? Lillian seems young considering her cards start from Wembdon cover 1906-1908, 1910. It is not necessary for you to investigate this, I just thought it might confirm some other info you found.

Church Cottage, Beaconsfield (Lillian, 1905)
Wembdon (Lillian 1906-1908)
Derry Ormond Llangybi, Cardiganshire 1907, 1908 (Donald)
C/O Mrs Edmonds, Hillgrove Villa, Newtown, Bridgwater (1907)
The Old Vicarage, Hockworthy, N Wellington, Somerset (1909)
Queen St Exeter
Henbury Hill House, Henbury, Near Bristol
Westbury (Donald)
Highgrove Pinner, Middlesex (Donald)
Wood Head Farm Branscombe – Lillian, 1914, 1915  (Lillian was in the Land Army)
Ottery St Mary & Huish Champflower Somerset (Lillian 1916)
C/o Mr Riccards Offices, Number 4 North Street South Moulton (1912, 13 postcards)
Weston Super Mare (Lillian 1919)

I also found out today:

Donald Sclater was working for the Inglis-Jones Family at Derry Ormond Estate Llangybi, in Cardiganshire at the time when Phyllis Joan Sclater (6 March 1911?) was conceived. (Wilmot Inglis-Jones at the time, I believe) There is a postcard from there dated 1908 Family understanding is that someone wealthy was involved (could it be Wilmot Inglis-Jones – family or staff?) and because ‘they’ had plenty of money they could hush it up. They didn’t want the bad publicity.  If family suspicions are correct, Donald brought the child home to Devon where she was adopted by the Sclater family at the age of four. There is a web site for Derry Ormond papers.

Donald Sclater came out to Australia on the SS Osterley in 1910. His aunt Nellie saw him off would it have been from ‘Gravend’ ? He posted a letter from Shepherds Bush just before he boarded. He came ahead of other family members. I don’t know what ship his parents (Charles and Ada) or Lillian came out on, or when. Lillian married here in Australia 25 Feb 1922, she wrote a card in England dated 1919 so it must be around 1919-1921 or so.

The story is that with so many things going wrong in Devon, and Don urging them to come to Australia, they were tempted. Then two storms sent one glasshouse down, and a tree crashed into their best one.

Offline gjatdp

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: 8th Devons pictures of CW
« Reply #8 on: Friday 01 October 10 14:21 BST (UK) »
I'm not sure if the photos of Charles and Lillian were attached so just in case I'm sending them again
Regards

Images resized for easier viewing