1841 census Llangyfelach Parish Clase

[marinerclark]

Ynystawe is the missing word.  Thank you so much.    LizR

[Ellenby]

Hello, This is the first time I have been into this site and am not sure how it works, I am not even really sure where I am or who will get this message.    I am related to John Davies and Margaret Grey.  Not sure if we can be of any help to each other as not sure if you are researching these two or Thomas Thomas.    Can you get back in touch with me.  Regards  Ellen

[marinerclark]

Dear Ellen   I am John Davies (~1786- 1851) and Margaret Grey's (1791- past 1851) 3 greats granddaughter by their son John Davies.  John Davies married Eleanor Thomas at Llangyfelach Parish Church in 1844-this is my connection to the Thomases.  Eleanor was the daughter of Thomas Thomas a butcher and Jemima(either Harris or Griffith).
    Margaret Grey's line is growing nicely but I have nothing on John Davies Sr. except he is supposed to be buried at Mynydd-Bach Chapel.  Can't find a will for him.  Have wills for Margaret's grandfather and brother and an admin for her father.
    Tell me how you are connected and where you are located.  You must have 3 posts on Rootschat to use the personal message system.  It is a great site.  I am on the west coast of US just south of Seattle.  My Welsh mother emigrated in 1953.  Just reply here  Very happy to have found another cousin   LizR

[Ellenby]

Hi, thanks for the reply.  Just found my way back on.  I am John Davies and Margaret Grey''s 4th Great Granddaughter, However I am stumped already as I don't have a son John Davies by John and Margaret.  I have ten children but no John.  My link is with William who had a son john Davies born 1837.  I guess if am either on the wrong track or I missed a son.  Can you tell me what children you have for your John and Margaret.     

John Was a Wheelright and lived in Penygorse. 

I am actually in Australia.    My Welsh Father immigrated in 1956.

Regards Ellen

[marinerclark]

John had left home by 1841 census as had William.   He was a single man so hard to spot in the sea of John Davies.
Marriage certificate August 26 1844 has John, a smith of Penygors,  marrying Eleanor Thomas at Llangyfelach Parish and father of John is John Davies of Penygors. a carpenter.
    In the 1851 census John and Eleanor have moved to Merthyr Tydvil to work at the iron works.  Staying with them are 2 visitors Thomas Thomas 22, and Morgan Davies 23 a wheelwright.  Tracing Morgan Davies back to age 13 in 1841 is how I found the family in Llangyfelach.
     John and Margaret  Grey married 1 Feb 1811 so lots of children missing. William seems to be the oldest.  My John's est. birthdate is 1822.  Can't find my list of kids right now but I 've only added William, John and possilbly Richard.  He is listed on the Jeremiah tree as marrying Sarah Jeremiah in 1837 at Llangyfelach.  The record says he was from Penygors
    Have you found the free willls online at the National Library of Wales  especially  Evan Grey  1842, Morgan Grey 1818 and Morgan Grey 1843  No Davies that I can tie in to Tree.  Do you have a death date for John or Margaret?
Langyfelach Parish register is on freereg.  Davies family used Mynydd Bach.  have made contact with another descendent of William Davies  on Curious Fox   I have lots more   When you have 3 posts we can use the PM system   LizR

[Ellenby]

Well that probably explains why John Davies did not have a son John Davies.   I was wondering as every other family has a child the same as the father.  You will have to excuse me as i am not the best at this.  I am using ancestry and once I get out of the time range, am a bit lost.   I do have a copy of the will for Evan Grey passing his goods etc to Margaret Gray (Davies).  I was happy when I found that because it is the only thing I have which links Margaret to John Davies.  This will is signed by John Davies, John Rees (Parish Clerk) and Thomas Thomas (butcher).  You may also have been told that Evan Grey is related to the Osmond Family.     I told my daughter this and her reply was, which one Ozzie or Sharon.

On the 1841 census for John and Margaret (Grey) Davies,  Penygorse, you will also find John Rees the Clerk and my 3rd GGF William Davies who is also a wheelright.  William lived at Pentwyn with his wife Mary.   William was married twice but Mary is the one who is my anscestor.   Thank you for the marriage date for John and Margaret.  Do you have a certiicate?    I don't have a death date for John or Margaret.  Actually I have just recently come back to this side of the family, have been in Scotland with my Mother's side. 

Anyway, it does seem that we are connected in some way.  Will be interesting to work it out.  I am also interested in your contact with William Davies but I will bet it is someone from his 2nd marriage to Jane.       regards Ellen 
 

[marinerclark]

Pentwyn is still there but Penygors has been replaced.
No marriage cert because it was before civil registration in 1837.  Just the Parish Register  I have the transcription which is typed copy but not the original which would only add witnesses.
  It's Donny and Marie Osmond.  Evan Grey's sister Mary Grey married Timothy Martin in 1795.  Timothy was a mining engineer from England who moved to Merthyr and opened the Penydarren pit.  His son George was foreman at Dowlais Iron Works which is why I think John and Eleanor moved to Merthyr.  So Osmonds come from the Martins.
   Check out Morgan Grey 1818 will  The sister Margaret is our Margaret Davies. and her brother Morgan's will in 1843 has your William Davies as co-executor   Morgan 1843 talks about his mothers estate but I can find nothing on that.  She was Mary John alive in the 1841 census.  They married  29 Oct 1785  I believe there was only one Evan Grey and his first wife died but I may be wrong.
   Have you used the Cambrian Index?  Swansea Archive newspaper index??   My tree is on line at Ancestry called marie olsen   You should also look for wendyfisher45 Have the Greys back to 1649.   Try freereg       LizR

[Ellenby]

ok, you are way ahead of me.  I only had Margaret Grey as John's wife and I thought that Evan was the Dad.  To make sure,  I found the will (don't ask me how just appeared one day on Google) leaving everything to Margaret his daughter and wife of JD.   This is really as far as I have gone.   I have no sisters or bothers for Margaret Grey, but from your information, she had a brother Evan born 1818.  I do have Mary and Evan in the 1841 census who I thought were the mum and Dad but had put them on the tree with a question mark.    I am loving all this information, but not sure whether I am going to be any help to you.  I have seen your tree on Ancestry, would it be easier if I got in touch with you through them.   

[marinerclark]

We have 3 solid generations  Margaret Grey 3 Nov 1791 dau of Evan Grey 1761-1842 son of Morgan Grey and Hannah David.   Free reg has Hannah Grey dying in 1789. 
    The 2nd Morgan Grey on the Will index 1843  is Evan Grey's son Morgan, brother to Margaret.  I think he must have been sick when his father Evan was dying.  So Evan had no will and Margaret applied for the Admin job. Morgan the grandfather had a leasehold called Caeradog that he left to Evan. and that is where Margaret was living in the 1851 census.  Welsh property had something called a three lives lease.  I found reference to them on the Swansea archives website
     The Osmond site gives Morgan Grey 1730-1818 children  In the will there are no married names.  Evan had a brother Morgan who died in 1786. 
      I tried free reg to get beyond Mark Grey.  Morgan 1730 and siblings are all in the Llangyfelach  parish reg but no mothers are listed.  Mark is in the burials in 1759 but no baptism.   If you google Mark Grey you get a book about the copper mining around Swansea.  He is listed.
  Mary and Evan only seem to have 2 children who made it to adulthood.  Morgan Grey 1843 had no children who lived so Margaret's kids got his estate.    We can use the personnal message system on Rootschat now that you have 3 posts.  Then I can send you a picture of Pentwin.      LizR