Carnmoney Cemetery records

[CAMION_FRERES]

Hi

I recently found my Grandfathers Right of Burial for Carnmoney Cemetery dated March 1912 and states G 147. He was a Fireman stationed in Belfast and Ardoyne Fire Stations. In the 1911 census he was in Ardoyne Fire station. His DOB is 17 October 1867.
Does the grave exist and is it marked or where would I get details about it.
Any info however small would be appreciated.

George CF

[liscoole]

Hi Camion and welcome to Rootschat

I have many relatives buried in Carnmoney Old Cemetery and the location of their graves has been a continuous problem.

The problem is, that there are no definitive original plans of the graveyard, so no one seems to be able to pinpoint where the corresponding sections on grave papers are located.

The North of Ireland Family History society have brought out 2 books transcribing the stones, I have checked the book "The hidden Graveyard" for you and no mention of him. They are currently working on a third book. I dont know when this will be published though.

Please reply and let me know if you are local, as I have the details of the caretaker who is happy to look up the burial register and can sometimes help with location of graves.

It's not always a lost cause, as I was able to locate my great grandfathers grave not so long ago.

Please reply to this message as I will not put the caretakers info on the forum, for privacy reasons this needs to be done by Personal Message (PM) and i cannot send you a PM until you have made at least 3 posts on the forum.

Best wishes
Liscoole

[TheWhuttle]

Hi George,

Not sure what the 147 means.

I reckon that your grandad might lie in the "old" graveyard at Carnmoney.
[This is the one which immediately surrounds the CoI church.]

I have a copy of a map held in the Sexton's cottage.
[Designated as "Survey of Existing Graveyard No.3 Carnmoney Parish Church". Dated June 1961.]

It is marked off in sections, labelled A,B,C,D,E,F.
Section G isn't marked explicitly, but must refer to the remaining area.

If you stood in the road facing the church then section F lies to the immediate right of the church, and section G lies to the right of section F. Both are bounded by the road to the South.  Section G is bounded by the internal path to the North.

----

There are two ARMSTRONG plots marked.
They are both near to the road.

If you walked along the pavement to the far RHS, then counted off vertical lanes back towards the church ...

   ... lane 1 (single-width plot);
   ... lane 5 (triple-width plot; marked AA1 on the map).

Details should be in the "Carved in Stone" book published by NIFHS, or online at "History from Headstones".

----

The family will have been granted special "permission" to bury him there because of its historical presence in the graveyard.
[Alternatives would have been the graveyards to the South of the road (one being the euphemistically named "hidden" one), or else Belfast City.]

Formal (methodical) recording of burial locations at Carnmoney only started in the 1960s.
Up till then adhoc methods had been used.

Capt. Jock

[CAMION_FRERES]

Hi
Many thanks for you both replying. It is possible that Samuel may not be in Carnmoney even though he initiated the Burial papers. (attached) While at Ardoyne Fire Station he had a daughter Caroline who in the 1911 census was only 7mths old.  I am told she might have died very young.

His father was my Great Grandfather called George Armstrong  a widower in 1911. Don't know his death date . He was married in 1867 to a Mary Savage. Don't know when she died. They had 4 children. Samuel,Molly,Emily and Lizzie.

I live in Comber Co.Down so I will endeavour to visit Carnmoney cemetery.
The family descendants from George and Samuel are deceased, and  buried at Dundonald.

Again many thanks.
George CF

[aghadowey]

Possibly this is daughter Caroline- dates fit burial paper and 1911 census:

Caroline ARMSTRONG (age 1)
death Jan./Mar.1912 Belfast registration district volume 1 page 280

Caroline ARMSTRONG
birth July/Sept.1910 Belfast registration district volume 1 page 307

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347

[liscoole]

George

If you know the exact date of death it would be an idea to go to the newspaper library in Central Belfast and check the Belfast Telegraph or Irish News to see if there was a family notice- this will more than likely tell you where he was buried.

Whuttle- my confusion arose from the fact that the caretaker said the map was inaccurate- furthermore- the sections allocated in the book do not reflect the sections on the map.

Any idea where secton C might be? My maternal GG grandfather is buried there- I would so love to see a copy of that map.

many thanks
Liscoole

[aghadowey]

His father was my Great Grandfather called George Armstrong  a widower in 1911. Don't know his death date . He was married in 1867 to a Mary Savage. Don't know when she died. They had 4 children. Samuel,Molly,Emily and Lizzie.

Actually it looks like they had more than 4 children (including one named Caroline which is possibly who infant in 1911 census was named after)-
Children of George Armstrong and Mary Savage-
1. Samuel born 17 Oct.1867 Ireland
2. Mary born 4 July 1868 Co.Antrim [probably Molly]
3. Elizabeth born 4 Aug.1870 Co.Antrim
4. Alfred born 24 Aug.1872 Belfast district
5. Emily born 19 Nov.1874 Ireland
6. Caroline born 26 Aug.1877 Belfast district
See www.familysearch.org

[TheWhuttle]

The map is an awkward size ... but here is most of it!

I can attest that it does indeed have transcriptoin inaccuracies.

Section C lies immediately North (above) the church, bounded by the cross-path.

Don't know how the section designations relate to the book.

Nor what the plot labels signify.
[The second letter seems to correlate with the initial letter of the surname in some.
 So the label might be an index pointer in to the "funeral cloth" books ...]

[CAMION_FRERES]

Hi

Many thanks for the map. I think my best bet is to visit Carnmoney and bring along your map and other directions I have been forwarded together with the Right of Burial Certificate.

Thanks for your help.

Regards
George CF