Author Topic: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana  (Read 29868 times)

Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #45 on: Thursday 11 February 10 13:08 GMT (UK) »
 ;D, David, 

You mentioned James McNally on the Cornwallis .... (edit to add, err...... isn't that the same voyage as Catherine Kearney  ;D  ;D who had a number of alias'  read on, )

I presume this would be him :

Re a James McNally on the Cornwallis (Marquis Cornwallis 1796, ) , ... there were two convicts surnamed McNally on that voyage.
James, who with former convictions was sentenced to 14 years transportation for cow stealing, trial at Trim Meath Co.

AND,

Maria McNally who was aged 22 on her arrival, ie born circa 1774.  She was tried at Dublin in 1795.  I've NOT found any indication that she had any children or a husband etc before she left Ireland.  An online site has her married in NSW in 1796, to a Thomas Moxon, and that she died in 1818 at Windsor.  I have NOT found any NSW BDM online index references to support that.  (I haven't even found Thomas Moxon)... edit to add ... is this actually Catherine Kearney  ;D

http://members.tip.net.au/~ppmay/convicts.htm ...  I have often found that site to be reliable, and in previous years I have contacted them and asked for further information about one or two of the names listed there, and met with prompt reply and references to check, and thus I have been able to continue researching my own Irish lines.   I note this because on the entry for James McNally,under Remarks it says " Left colony 1806 previous Irish charge & trial details available "
Cheers,

JM         
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Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #46 on: Friday 12 February 10 03:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

Re David's post Reply #27 from Wednesday 10 February ... Well found David ...   

I notice there's "Mrs R ...." (CC McN)  but no mention of "Mr ...." (Thomas Ransom) .... So, err ... Was the Royal Oak Inn (Sorrell Inn) etc a "hut" or was it a larger establishment .... (and thus who lived at the hut and who lived at the Royal Oak  ;D or were these both actually one and the same address . ....  I'm not from that district, so I don't know ...

And who was where on 24 October 1828 when McNeilly and servant were speared .... Where were Thomas Ransom or Catharine Christiana McNally in October 1828, where was young Thomas McNally ... was he ever speared  ....

I think that ALL the (possible, probable, likely etc) sightings on the three threads need to be put into a chronological order, in a couple of instances, day by day even ... to make sure we are finding the jigsaw pieces for the right puzzles...    Then (I'm presuming)  Wiggy, who started the threads could have a better picture of this involved saga ....  and it could be "driven" by Wiggy ... I feel this thread is turning out to be another that will develop into very long thread ....  so much of what I have posted on these three threads, is readily available online at free to search sites...   ;), or in some of those good reference books that David regularly cites ....   It is quite a chore to have to check back through so many pages to confirm that the information being posted is not duplicating an earlier post ...  I try to be diligent with that task...   

Anyways,  at the moment, I'm trying to find where CC McN  was in Oct 1828 ... I thought she was signing attestment papers or giving witness in court re that Mrs Owens incident that vdlstories quoted back on thread 1 ....  I notice that no-one has posted any comments about Mrs Ransom and Mr Ransom having separate bedrooms in the Royal Oak .... would that be in the HUT  ;D ... 

I'd really like a list of things to chase up, rather than making my own "to do" list on this searching for McNally, Catharine Christiana...   ;D

Cheers,  JM


The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

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Offline davclem

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #47 on: Friday 12 February 10 06:10 GMT (UK) »
Oh no, the Royal Oak was not a hut- in addition to the description in the Hermit of VDL, and the description in the report of the Land Commissioners,there is a description by a diarist, Mrs Reid I believe, eulogising the comfort of the inn and the skills and personality of our Catherine- all circa 1826-1829- need to check

Not a hut- and still there

david
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Online Wiggy

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #48 on: Friday 12 February 10 06:22 GMT (UK) »
The Royal Oak is quite a substantial building at Green Ponds / modern day Kempton.  My reading of the blacks incidents is that the huts were probably shepherds or cattlemens huts, as they are quite a distance from Green Ponds if I am reading my map correctly - I also note that the huts belonged to the Ransoms - there is only one instance where Mrs Ransom seems to have actually been present - maybe I'm being pedantic - but I am a bit pedantic - that's how I am.  and here's some more pedantry for you    :D

Re the court case and Catherine's witness statements:  I've just been back to check

  Julia transcribed:

1.   He "Followed me into the bedroom where I was" - she does not say into my bedroom.  Catherine is an Innkeeper - surely she could have been checking other bedrooms - (as in the one where Mrs Owens was going to sleep for example.)

2.  "She sleeps with me" - could easily be interpreted as 'She stays in this house' - not necessarily she sleeps in my bedroom - in fact I believe the latter is highly unlikely.

3.  "I left the room and came downstairs. Mr Ransom was in the room" - I believe she is talking about the parlour - or whatever common room they were all in - it doesn't say in his bedroom.

The only place I can find where Mrs Ransom seems to be sleeping alone is in the newspaper article on January 19 1828 when there is a description of Mrs Ransom repelling bushrangers.   (Even then it doesn't say Mr Ransom was not there - but in this case that is certainly the inference, as she had to wait for other servants to come to her aid.)   There are several reasons why she might not be sharing a room with Thomas at this particular time - none of which indicate that she was not in a relationship with him.

to your requests JM, for a list of what I have for certain -

1 I have the certificate/image  for Thomas 2's baptism - there is no birth registration.
2.  There is no record of either baptism or birth of Anne that we've been able to find - neither have Tas. Archives staff.
3.  I have certificate for Catharine's marriage with Frederick Von Stieglitz.
4.  I have Catharine's death certificate.
5.  I have Thomas 2's marriage certificate.
6.  I have seen Anne's marriage registration in the Archives.
7.  I have a photo of Catharine's gravestone.
8.  I have Thomas 1's will and Thomas 2's will.
9.  I have Sarah's death inquest report - wife of Thomas 2.


 
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]I do not have Thomas 1's death certificate yet but I do have the obit from the paper for him and it is quite long and detailed.
I have photos of Daniel StanfieldSnr's grave memorial with all the rest of the first fleeters - from St David's park in Hobart - also on same memorial are Thomas Ransom Edward Kimberley, Mary Kimberley (Nee Cavanaugh) -  the last three all convict who'd been pardoned but arrived in VDL via Norfolk Island, and who belong to our family - (as do the Stanfields (who were not convicts)

[/color]

Wiggy    :D     Hope this list helps!!
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriess,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #49 on: Friday 12 February 10 18:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi All, especially Robyn  ;D

Pte James McAnally, of the 46th Regiment on foot, indexed as on a pay list in 1815 in VDL.  The 46th Regiment relieved the 73rd in February 1814.  The 46th Regiment was in turn relieved by the 48th in Sept 1817.  Then the 46th Regiment went off to Madras ... (ie James McAnally may well have left VDL with his regiment, but without his camp follower  ;D ) or perhaps he may have absconded from his regiment and stayed in VDL . 

The impediment arose in 1814, as that is of course eleven years earlier than 1825 ... 

I am sure that Robyn will not be at all surprised with this find,  ....  Robyn has asked if perhaps CC McN was a ... "camp follower"

You can find the index that I found, via the Australian Resources Board here at Rchat .... 
Clue :  Remember that VDL was not a separate colony until 1825.  Therefore, Soldiers information may well be found on one of the NSW resources ... and thus I searched the INDEXES of the Databases at http://www.sag.org.au (Society of Australian Genealogists).  There is a fee of around ten or so dollars to obtain all the information on that database about that soldier. . . .   ;)

Has anyone read the book first printed in London in 1824 ... The book by Edward Curr.  He mentions runaway soldiers living in the woods in VDL sometimes for up to 3 years...  1817, the regiment left VDL, add 3 years ...Thomas McNaly was baptised.   If you are soldier runaways, then you don't report to the annual Musters ... ;D  The title of the book ... "An account of the colony of VDL....

Over to you Wiggy, to go through the resources again, on those links provided by Rootschat .

Cheers, JM 

edit to add, IN 1820, via HMS  Coromandel at detachment of the 46th, escorted convicts to VDL ... would be interesting to see when they arrived ....  ;) 

Further edit, the 46th Regiment served in the WEST INDIES ... back in the right time frame for CC MCN's birth 46th regiment 1779-1792 - The Caribbean - Capture of St. Eustatius   
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

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Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #50 on: Friday 12 February 10 22:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

On the IGI extracted, theres a marriage 12 August 1786 at St Marys, Portsea, Hants, of Catherine ROOK and John McCallay.  David may be able to figure out IF that lass could be connected to Captain William ROOK, of NI and of various vessels in the South Seas  to around 1827ish...  Perhaps this is the Catherine Rook from the Perserverance in PJ in 1811 crewing along with that chap of many aliases ... including McGuire, McNally, Wilson etc. (he had so many that there's notices in the Syd Gazette listing letters waiting and then Dead Letters in the Post Office from around 1810 and a year or so later ......

I also spotted a submitted entry on IGI, so I stress that submitted entries are often not reliable.  It shows a birthdate of 8 September 8 Sept 1823 and a baptism of October 1823 (noting no date in October) for Ann McGuire, with father names as Thomas McGuire, and mother as Catherine.  The baptism apparently occurred "Buckingham" Tasmania.   My thoughts would be this may be Ann as in CCMcN's daughter ... remembering Martin Cash noted the girl was younger than Thomas (McNally)...  Perhaps a check of the parish records for Ann McGuire's baptism at say St Davids (or the church where Thomas McNally's was performed by Rev'd Knopwood  ;D

HMS Coromandel with that 46th detachment escorting convicts to VDL in 1820 .... errr its arrival is on the newspaper site .... twas in port at same time as Prince Leopold (was Captain Rook the Master on the PL at that time ?) Coromandel in HT during March, April etc 1820 ....   :D  :D  :-X  :-X

When searching for a possible Carribean birth/baptism for CC McN don't forget to check and find the then names for the islands in the West Indies ...  ;)   Wiggy, in case the excitment levels are raised at your PC,  here's a link to the IGI  for searching for her possible birth...  http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp

 ;D I was up around dawn this morning, farm issues of course...  I've got fingers crossed that these jigsaw pieces will make sense to Wiggy's oral history....  ;D


Cheers, JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Online Wiggy

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #51 on: Friday 12 February 10 23:56 GMT (UK) »
Anne said she was 22 when married in 1840 and she was 75 at death on 1 Oct 1892!   I checked the St David's records forward and backwards several years, while I had the chance in Hobart!

Wiggy
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriess,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #52 on: Saturday 13 February 10 00:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

a) When you were at St David's were you actively looking for McGuire  ;) .... I'm noticing the first names of her parents, the use of the alias surname that is associated with McNally, and that the surname offered by the submitter starts with Mc (as in CC Mc N  ::) I'm gently suggesting that perhaps you ought to contact the same place you got Thomas McNally's record, and ask them for similar pages for the 3rd & 4th quarters of 1823  ;D .... 
             ;D  Also, do remember please many lasses put their ages up so they could marry without seeking parental permission....  AND the information on death certificates is only as good as the then current knowledge of the person giving it.  If the informant was a close family member, they were giving it at a time of grief, perhaps saying "I think ......" or "About .....".  This happens even today, and the person (doctor/undertaker etc) recording the information is not responsible for checking the accuracy of the information they are given.    ;)     You believe Thomas Ransom was Thomas McNally's Dad .... so why not consider that there's a pointer for that 1823 baptism for Ann Mc ...., daughter of Thomas and Catherine ....  Wiggy, you believe he fathered a son at age 77, why couldn't he father a daughter at 80 .... particularly , as you indicate, you can show that they had the same bedroom...  ;)

b) It may well be that the chap transported on the Fortune/Alexander, and emancipated in May 1811 got to where-ever the recruiting officers were for the 46th by 1813, and was one of the Shan-hai-ed enlistments, and thus returned to VDL .... (yes, recruiting officers did collect the odd new recruits from the pubs near their docked ship, yes, they sometimes clobbered them over the head, and errrr, yes, I have forebears in the Royal Navy, in this very time frame who may well have turned a blind eye when their ratings rounded up new recruits...   :o )

c) who were the witnesses for Ann's marriage, and also who were the witnesses for CCMc N's .... both married the brothers Stieglitz ...

d) have you started to look for the baptism of CC Mc N within that timeframe in the West Indies ....  ;D

Cheers,  JM



 


The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline davclem

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #53 on: Saturday 13 February 10 02:29 GMT (UK) »
JM,
Re Post 50- brilliant-  how did I miss that!- a Catherine Rook marrying a John McAllay in Hampshire in 1786- of course there isn't the perfect following record in the IGI, but we shall trawl ,looking for Catherine Mc(N)allay born 1789 dau of Catherine Rook and John Mc(N)allay. then the game would  become interesting.

David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820