Author Topic: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana  (Read 29877 times)

Offline regross

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #54 on: Saturday 13 February 10 03:07 GMT (UK) »
Had a quick look in the IGI with out luck, but you may have better success.

Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

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Offline maidmarianoops

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #55 on: Saturday 13 February 10 03:31 GMT (UK) »
CATHERINE ROOK
Chr 5 OCT 1766  Saint Marys Portsea Hampshire      Father HUGH ROOK

============================================
John McCallay  Marriage  12 AUG 1786  St Mary's Portsea Hampshire
catherine rook
============================
Catherine Rook
Christening  24 JAN 1793  St Mary  Southampton  Hampshire
  Father                John Rook
 Mother             Catherine   

family search

sylvia
notts/derbys clark
      "        "      stenson
        "       "    nicholson
       "     "        jarvis
                         castledine
    rhodes

 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline regross

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #56 on: Saturday 13 February 10 03:37 GMT (UK) »
WOW  :D
WOW  :D
WOW  :D

:) :) this is the benefit of fresh eyes and input :) :)
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #57 on: Saturday 13 February 10 04:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

It could be that Catherine Rook and James McGuire's possible baby girl was born a) at sea, b) in the West Indies or c) on Continental America .... perhaps he was a) Royal Navy or b) soldier anyways, around the time Britain was at war with her colonies and with the French for control of the plantations where the slaves that Great Britain was transporting to the SUGAR growing areas worked.  St Kitts, any of the Carribean Islands.  .....   James McGuire's info on the Peter Maybery website indicates he had previous convictions and the records are extant and can be made available.  .... perhaps a deserter ... hence 14 years for stealing a cow (ie previous convictions taken into consideration at the sentencing).

If the MCGUIRE=ROOK had a daughter (possibly named Catharine Christiana) then she should have been vitualled and noted on the Secretary of War's records at I think from memory "Whitehall".  These could be at the UK's National Archives.  I think I have the WO file numbers for same era, but back at my home (which I will be returning to later today .... five hour drive though).

I think there would also be similar info on the 1815 pay list, however, CC Mc N was most likely no longer vitualled against his pay list, as she had become crew in 1811 on the Perserverence.   I am suggesting though, that the Catherine McGuire, free woman on the 1818 VDLmuster, could well be her.  McGuire would be her maiden name, but if he regularly used his known alias of McNally, then she may have, at times, chosen to use that instead.  IT WAS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE KNOWN BY AN ALIAS, the word has a much more unsavory meaning NOW, but it was not so in that era.

I will try to write out a likely "fictional" history of what I think MAY have occurred, but that will not get done until I am at my own 'puter, and so it will be late tonight. 

I think it very very likely that Captain William ROOK and Thomas RANSOM were CC McN's protectors, and that Catherine Kearney, alias McNally was protecting her too.  I think the problem occurred in 1814, when James McGuire came to VDL as part of the 46th regiment (as McNally etc) and thought he could push his way back into his daughter's life.   I think Roger Gavin was a threat to CC McN and that it was he, who in 1825, to impress Gov Arthur, "ferretted" out any gossip he could on any of the NI settlers.  It would be to get his promotion to Chief of Police to Gov Arthur's newly formed police district.... which happened to be down the road, passed his step sons farms and Roger Gavin only knew a part of the story.

Of course, I could be so far off track, but .... its worth a try.   It seems to be the closest yet to finding the origins, and the key to Wiggy's puzzle.

Cheers,  JM  (excuse any typos, I'm typing without much screen, and with electrical interferences ...

 
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Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #58 on: Saturday 13 February 10 04:25 GMT (UK) »
WELL FOUND SYLVIA  

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Wiggy

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #59 on: Saturday 13 February 10 11:17 GMT (UK) »
Huge effort one and all - I am dumbfounded - almost.

Just one thing - I didn't say I can show Catharine and Thomas had the same bedroom - I said I can find one instance when there is a direct inference that they were not in the same bedroom - slight difference in interpretation there JM!! ::)  No twisting my words!!    :D   ( post 52)   ;)

Am looking looking at all those leads.    Many thanks folks.

Wiggy
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriess,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline davclem

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #60 on: Saturday 13 February 10 12:01 GMT (UK) »
Re IGI entries for Catherine Rook- careful not to get these confused.

 The 1792 marriage  of John Rook to Catherine Whitley at Millbrook in1792,  gives us the Catherine Rook born in 1793. Because of the 'Millbrook'  reference, she is  possibly the  Perseverance 1811 Catherine Rook marrying a Mcnally  1811-1816

The 1766 Catherine Rook (dau of Hugh Rook) marrying  John McCally in 1786 would give us a daughter Catherine Mccally  not a Catherine Rook(e).  Catherine McCally(nee Rook) is too old (1766) to be our Catherine ,there would have  to be a daughter Catherine Mc(N)ally from this couple about 1789 to be  relevant to our search

These appear to be two quite distinct couples.

David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline Wiggy

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #61 on: Saturday 13 February 10 23:47 GMT (UK) »
Re post 52   JM
Quote
a) When you were at St David's were you actively looking for McGuire  Wink .... I'm noticing the first names of her parents, the use of the alias surname that is associated with McNally, and that the surname offered by the submitter starts with Mc (as in CC Mc N  Roll Eyes I'm gently suggesting that perhaps you ought to contact the same place you got Thomas McNally's record, and ask them for similar pages for the 3rd & 4th quarters of 1823  Grin ....

When I was in Hobart I didn't know about any McGuire!!  I was looking for Ransom or McNally.
I made that particular search last June when I was there and we've learnt so much since then! - I checked baptisms for children called Anne to Mothers called Catharine, for and aft of the Thomas entry, just to see if any looked likely.   Nothing got up and hit me.   Next time I am in Hobart, I will search again - It may not be for a while - I'm saving up for the trip!  I have rather enough requests in to the Archives at the moment - think I'd better go easy on them for a while.  ;)

Thanks for making the Rook/McCally households clearer for me David - I was/am getting totally confused.  I don't know how you guys do it!  I cannot take everything in at this pace - SLOW DOWN you lot!!!    :)

Cheers,        Wiggy
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriess,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline davclem

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #62 on: Sunday 14 February 10 00:57 GMT (UK) »
Just a couple or so items I trawled some weeks previous, but managed to file in a folder marked  "Tardis Cuttings" (you reallydon't want to know)

Historic Records of Australia  29/12/1819 George Town-Cimitiere to Archer;
"in reply to your letter dated 27th Instant in which you state that the Magistrates have deprived James McNally of his Crown Servant by name Stephen Carr and that Mr James Hill wishes to take the said Convict off the stores, I have no objection"

HRA 19 Feb 1820 Nominal List of (number of) Crown prisoners in the employ of Officers, Settlers etc as assigned Government Servants Port Dalrymple VDL 19 Feb 1820
 "J McAnally, 1"

HRA 25 June 1819 Persons victualled from His Majests Magazines at George Town and Port Dalrymple "Settlers-John McNally struck off 16 th July 1819 (?DWC-see date of notice) was victualled by Major Stewart until further orders for saving a number of Government cattle from drowning in the river"

Convict Indents 1788-1812 to NSW McNally, including variants

Macnally James Marquis Cornwallis 1796 Meath
McNeal John  Fortune/Alexander 1806 Warwickshire
Mcannelly James Boddingtons 1792 Antrim
McKenley Joseph Minerva 1800 Ireland m Catherine Clements, in 1822 NSW muster  a John      Mcnulty age 11 born colony living with Ann Clements
McNally Maria  Marquis Cornwallis 1796 Dublin
McNalty Catherine Sydney Cove 1807 Middlesex ( Theres my girl! m Bryan Overhand)
Mc Nalty Daniel Boyd 1809 Ireland
McNulty Mary Tellicherry 1806 Ireland

Tasmanian Colonial Index Compiled by FHC Resouces Group Kiama;-

John McNally 1832-34 Richmond DistrictTrials -Accused P148 ML323 Reel P3-9 Ref CY 11
McNally VDL 1827-28 Superior Court Orders Reel P3-11 Ref CY 2142 Sec ML 176-24 frames 358,364, 377

Also, I have checked Lists A1 and A2 pages 281-327 of Portia Robinson "The Women of Botany Bay" for 29 convict women called Catherine  tried after 1803 and arrived Sydney before 1812 and cross checked against 1806/1811/1814 musters and nobody  seems to be a possible fit for our girl in Hobart in 1819-1821

David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820