Author Topic: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana  (Read 29863 times)

Offline davclem

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 10 February 10 21:25 GMT (UK) »
Source “The Aboriginal/Settler Clash in VDL 1803-1831  NJB Plomley
Incidents reported 1804-1831, which relevantly include

December 1827 Shannon  River  Mrs Ransome  Hut plundered
19 March 1828 Clyde River region Mrs Ransome with 2 armed servants came upon natives making spears who fled when fired upon
20 October 1828 GreenPonds near Mrs Ransome’s, hut plundered 15-20 natives , pursued,some killed , whiteman(Green?) with them, Mrs Landford speared, ditto son John, dau killed
24 October 1828 Abyssinia Marsh McNeilly ( and Espie) servant Wm Parr speared, natives also visited Capt Woods hut but repulsed
12 November 1828 Shannon, Ransome ,hut plundered
9 November 1830 Sawyers Hill, Dysart Parish, Stieglitz, sawyer and splitter, hut plundered

There she is, Mrs Ransome, Ransome, McNeilly  and Stieglitz, and these are only the relevant references, out of 46 close set foolscap pages of 'interaction"between 'natives' and "settlers", a  very substantial proportion in her neck of the woods- first it was the bandittii then the clashes, puts her daily life into another perspective .

David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

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Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 11 February 10 00:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

Hoping there's a reply for David's posting on the West Indies thread  ;D   Italians to Ireland ... yep, the late 1700's and early 1800's ... there's masses of peoples moving around the globe, tis a very interesting period of exploration, colonisation, warfares, revolutions, social/economic reform, religious missionary zeal,  and of course, development of literacy/numeracy and industrialisation. 

Catherine Kearney, Roger Gavin.
On NSW Col Sec Papers under Roger Gavin it indicates that from 1819 - 1823 he was  owing quit rents for land in the Districts of Ulva and Staffa ... perhaps he was not exactly welcome at Catherine Kearney's Hobart Town dairy.  I mention this as Thomas McNally was baptised in Dec 1820 at Hobart.  I note that the Catherine Kearney's dairy and the Carpenters Arms/Joiners Arms (re Thomas Ransom, Snr) were very near by to each other .   I note that Catherine Kearney is found on the Muster Records, while Catherine McNally ihas not yet been found on them.

Could it be that Roger Gavin was the "prying eyes" for raising the impediment in Thomas Ransom's publican's licence in 1825.  He had dispute with Col Authorities over the enclosing of a "road" frontage to that dairy, perhaps around that same period.  Court case was finally "non suited" in 1831. 

I'm wondering about the headstone at St David's in Hobart for a Catherine Kearney (1831), and note that her will was proved within weeks of the burial.  She made her "X" mark. 

I cannot find Catherine Kearney in newspapers after April  1820 apart from one advertisement with Roger Gavin's name also mentioned.   I cannot find Mrs Ransom in newspapers before 1823.   

Err 1814 ...(11 years before 1825, and the impediment issue ... that's the year Thomas Ransom settled in VDL ... Kearney and Gavin were moved off NI in 1808 ... 

Current thoughts .... Catherine Kearney may have a further alias .... McNally.or perhaps she had a baby girl in about 1795/6 born at NI to a McNally  ie ... and err .... Catherine Kearney may have been mother of Catharine Christiana McNally. 

I also note that Catharine Christiana McNally. after her marriage to Fred (1830) was known as Christiana, and not as Catharine,while Catherine Kearney was only known as Catherine.

I have not found death of Roger Gavin, but he was living on 15 Jan 1830 for the court case in Hobart.  He is on my list as possible former spouse for Catharine Christiana, or maybe he was CC McN's step-father ...

Cheers,  JM
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Offline davclem

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 11 February 10 01:21 GMT (UK) »
JM,
massive amount of research, but surely if Catherine Kerney has gravestone in Hobart in 1831, she's not our gal  who has her own gravestone in 1857 at Cullenswood as Stieglitz.
David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline regross

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 11 February 10 01:31 GMT (UK) »
Da,

Suggested that our CMcN may be her daughter
Quote
Current thoughts .... Catherine Kearney may have a further alias .... McNally.or perhaps she had a baby girl in about 1795/6 born at NI to a McNally  ie ... and err .... Catherine Kearney may have been mother of Catharine Christiana McNally.

very reasonable theory I would think but researching it may prove difficult.
If she had a daughter then
1] known to assoicate with a WIilson also  used as on of the McGuire/McNally alias
2]age would be around right for CCMcN
3] proximity to Ransom is a positive
4] CCMcN would be colonial born not a convict and perhaps no record of her birth etc
However no explanation for the impediment in this theory.

Question is Cathereine Kearney listed on teh musters with children?


Robyn
The following families and their Australian decendents:
Abbott, Barnard, Clarke, Inward, Lanfear, Rutter,Spencer:Middlesex
Greenaway:Cornwall
Edney, Godwin/Goodwin, Gullett:Hampshire;
Gullett:Devon
Emms:39th Regiment of Foot 1810-1832
Gordon:Scotland
Arnold, Morton:Ireland
Davies:Wales
Olcorn:Cumberland
Osborne:Staffordshire
Harrington:Kent
&
Gross: Tullau Wurtmemburg Germany

Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 11 February 10 02:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

Perhaps the impediment was simply that Catharine Christiana McNally had been born on NI to Catherine Kearney and that CC McN's reputed father was known only to Catherine Kearney, until in 1814 someone in the VDL settlement noticed a remarkable likeness between Thomas Ransom and the lass, by then aged around 18 years of age who may have been crew on vessels arriving and departing Hobart.  Remember that Thomas Ransom was the superintendent of boat builders at that time.   Now that would be an impediment to any marriage between Thomas Ransom and Catharine Christiana McNally.  That scenerio neatly explains away why CC McN is not on any of the musters, (always at sea !) and also explains why the impediment was not of CC McN's making but why it was of Thomas Ransom's making.  And, frees CC McN to marry Fred less than 12 months after Thomas Ransom's death ....

That scenerio also explains why Wiggy has oral history suggesting Thomas McNally was Thomas Ransom's son...  I think this scenerio would support the concept that Thomas McNally MAY have been Thomas Ransom's grandson ...  It also offers a very sensible reason why Thomas Ransom's 1829 will benefits only Catharine Christiana McNally and her son Thomas,  and explains why there's newspaper cuttings referring to CC McN as "Mrs Ransom"... 

I agree that it would be somewhat difficult to research a Norfolk Island birth from those early decades ... however, there's several Kearney births on Norfolk Island on the TAO online with birth place Norfolk Island circa 1793, 1798 etc ... Spotted William Kearney, who could be the same William Kearney along with Catherine Kearney supplying fresh meat to Hobart in around 1818 etc

Cheers,  JM 

 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

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Offline davclem

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 11 February 10 02:41 GMT (UK) »
If she was Thomas daughter by Catherine Kearney, why don't they acknowledge her as such, Miss Ransom- because Roger Gavin would go ballistic? What differnce legally is there in willing your property to a bastard child of your own  to the bastard child  of somebody else (catherine x Mcnally?)

We have the Amos/Cummings theory, the morrison scenario, the Rook possibility and now the Kearney case.

Irene Schaffer is the one to consult on NI families

David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 11 February 10 02:59 GMT (UK) »
 ;D

Hi David,

Perhaps the difference was simply that children born out of wedlock were thus not "inheritors" per sec ...  I am suggesting that at 77 Thomas Ransom was too old to be the reputed father of CC McN's son.  I am suggesting that he was NOT too old to be the reputed father of CC McN and thus the grandfather of Thomas McNally.

I think I may have found a possible father for Thomas McNally...  (Thanks to my In-Laws, who are fascinated by this thread and by the internet in general)...

Online newspapers,  Saturday 1 January 1820, HTG, suppliers of fresh meat to the Govt Stores .... (mentions Roger Gavin as well), 

JAMES M'NALLY     to deliver 750 lbs due the week commencing 18 March 1820,  .... nine months after that, there's a baptism in Hobart for Thomas McNally.... 


 ;D

Cheers,  must go, farm chores here at inlaws... some cattle issues  !  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline davclem

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 11 February 10 03:27 GMT (UK) »
Well done the family! I had not found the contract notice, but  Thelma MCKay 'Index to early land grants VDL 1804-1823" does list John McNally as 60 acres at Melville  and James McNally as 50 acres at Launceston- these two playing Tweedledum and Tweedledee again,( the Boddington Boys) because it is Melville which is in the New Norfolk area, near Hobart, which should be John supplying to the commissary, not James. From memory I followed these up, and came to no satisfactory conclusion- i think that there was a transfer or swop of grant for one near Launceston, but would need to check. It does again indicate the existence of Mcnallys in VDL at the time, which is why i keep returning to the Cummings scenario and the Boddington boys at Port Jackson, and the absconding of Ann Cummings and the Thomas Amos connection, but , yes, was there a Mcnally hut/dwelling in melville c 1819/1821?

David
Juler- NWNorfolk , Thomas/Alice ,pre 1800,
Clement-Durham, Eng,pre 1800
Holroyd, Staffordshire, pre 1750
Amelia Wyatt/Cole/Booth,  born Surrey ,abt 1821
John Wentworth who married Sarah Holmes, Carshalton,pre 1785
John Frith married Ann, Yorkshire/pre 1770, Settrington?
Alice Miles married Holkham Norfolk to Juler about 1745
Thomas Sanders , Buckland 1700s
Richard Adams , tailor , Lambeth ,about 1780-1830
Earliest reference to Break O'Day Plains, Eastern Tasmania, before 1820

Offline majm

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Re: still Searching for origins of MCNALLY, Catharine Christiana
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 11 February 10 03:47 GMT (UK) »
And

Don't overlook that 1818 Catherine McGuire, free woman at Hobart .... I think this would be CC McN, there for possible birth of Ann, who also married a Stieglitz ...  there's that James McGuire, alias McNally, ex Fortune/Alexander 1806, with Catharine Mac... on the Perserverence May 1811 out of PJ with that James as crew, and Rook as Master etc ...  I would be more inclinded towards the Fortune/Alexander MCNALLY over the Boddington ...  ;D

But, at least there's now a possible father for Thomas McNally  ;D regardless of which ship "fetched" that candidate to VDL  ;D

My inlaws continue to be fascinated, so I will try to find further info about that Jan 1820 sighting of the fresh meat suppliers (Gavin and McNally especially), 

Also, on first thread, around reply #86, VDLStories, .... I recall that CC McN (as Mrs Ransom) had her own bedroom, with a guest for it in 1826, and by inference (or perhaps stated, not sure) Mr Ransom had his own (separate) bedroom,  which suggests to me that there was no common-law marriage between TR and CC McN, thus again supporting the notion that CC McN may have been his daughter.   Also, not sure, BUT , I think the "title" MISS was not used, except for "higher classes, without that "stain" (horrid word) of any convict connections.

I can well imagine that Roger Gavin would "ballastic" issues ... have prying eyes in 1825 .... Perhaps young (5 year old) Thomas McNally's face would be known to Gavin and he would see Catherine Kearney's features there ... ;D
Cheers,
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 

Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.

Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

I do not have a face book or a twitter account.