Author Topic: convicts families arrivals in Australia  (Read 12193 times)

Offline Andcarred

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 01:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi Prue,

The Indent for the Blenheim lists a Patrick DONALLAN AGED 30 YEARS sentenced to life in Limerick in 1833.   It is the list of Conditional Pardons in 1846 that lists him as John Donnellan of the Blenheim.  I think this is probably the same man.  However I cannot find him under any spelling at all on the Irish Database.  Bit of a mystery one ??? ??? ???

Andcarred
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Offline PrueM

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 02:52 GMT (UK) »
Hm...OK, I can see him as John in HO 10/30 "List of Convicts arrived 1833-1834, and in HO 10/33 "General Muster 1837", as well as the Pardons previously mentioned.  Can't see a Patrick D arriving 1834 on the Blenheim in the records I have access to.  :-\

I had a look at the Irish Convict Transportation Database too, but can't see John DONNELLAN...however on reading the info page:
While the collection of convict petitions dates from the beginning of transportation from Ireland to Australia in 1791, all transportation registers compiled before 1836 were destroyed in the Four Courts fire of June 1922. Therefore, if the person you are researching was convicted before 1836, but was not the subject of a petition, he or she will not appear on this database. In other words, the records from which the transportation database was compiled such as the transportation registers, convict reference files and petitions to government for pardon or commutation of sentence, are incomplete.

Perhaps John's wife came out of her own accord, but I can't immediately see her on any Assisted Passenger indexes.  There are DONNELLANs immigrating Unassisted, but unfortunately there is no Catherine named - lots of Mrs DONNELLANs though.

A thought:  Catherine's death certificate might state how long she had been in the colony.

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Offline Chatso58

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 11:27 GMT (UK) »
Hi there to all
thank you to everyone that's been working so hard on my family research my John wife name is Catherine Donnellan nee Mcmahon but not sure yet if this convict is our John I am trying to make the connection, but everything seems to fit Catherine came out in 1843 nine years after John and I don't think she had any Children in Ireland on Catherine death certificate states that she had four daughters and they were all born in Armidale N.S.W
John's conviction seems to be around the same time as they married on John's death certificate it says he was 29 when he married and he was 29 when he was convicted
and Catherine would have  only been about 16 by her death certificate don't know if that had any thing to do with his conviction
                                                 Chatso58     

Offline Chatso58

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 21:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi again
could someone please explain why you think Patrick and John Donnellan are the same person? sorry but I just don't understand I would appreciate and explanation thank's again Chatso58

Offline PrueM

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 22:40 GMT (UK) »
The reason that we think Patrick and John are the same person is that all but one record of his convict  life (musters/census, pardon etc) say his name is John DONNELLAN who arrived in 1834 on the Blenheim, but on one record (the indent for the ship BLENHEIM, i.e. the list of people on board and where and when they were convicted etc.) the name John DONNELLAN doesn't appear, but there is a Patrick DONNELLAN instead.  It's the only time the name Patrick appears, and all the other details of his trial place etc. match, so we're assuming it's a mistake that was made only on the ship's indent.

It's possible that he was named as Patrick in earlier records such as his trial, but as those papers appear to have been destroyed, we can't be sure.

Does that make sense?  I'm not very good at explaining things!

Cheers
Prue

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 22:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi All,

A thought:  Catherine's death certificate might state how long she had been in the colony. PRUE


Catherine would have  only been about 16 by her death certificate CHATSO

As you seem to have it, are you able to answer Prue's suggestion? :)

Sue
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Offline PrueM

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 23:13 GMT (UK) »
Further thoughts... ;D

How do you know that Catherine arrived around 1843?  Is that when their first child was born?

and Catherine would have  only been about 16 by her death certificate don't know if that had any thing to do with his conviction  

Don't think so - presumably the law in Ireland was similar to that in England at the same time, which was that girls could be married as young as 12 years old.

Do you have John's ticket of leave or his certificate of freedom?  One or both should state the crime for which he was transported.

Added:  D'oh.  Forgot he was a "lifer" and therefore not (I think?) eligible for a ToL or CoF.  Sorry :-(


Online sparrett

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 17 February 10 23:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Prue,
 [i] Forgot he was a "lifer" and therefore not (I think?) eligible for a ToL or CoF.  Sorry :-([/i]

Now I am not so sure about that.
I believe that even those convicted for life were eligible for both TOL and Pardon, both conditional and absolute.

Others will know more I guess

Will have a look about on the subject ;D

EDIT Adding.  You seem to be correct about the CERTIFICATE of FREEDOM.
Lifers were not eleigible.
They could get a ToL and PARDON.


I'm glad I know that now, even if the rest of the world already did :o


Sue
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Offline PrueM

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Re: convicts families arrivals in Australia
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 18 February 10 00:04 GMT (UK) »
The rest of the world minus me  ;D

I think I had read that somewhere but couldn't remember...thanks for sorting me out, Sue  ;D ;D ;D