Drawbridge Family

[orangecat]

Thanks Gobbo,

My grandfather Frank Arthur Drawbridge, son of William and Annie, had a number of brothers. One brother was William C (DoB 1880)  born at Goudhurst, Kent.

The whole family seems to originate in Goudhurst, and most seem to be agricultural workers, millers etc.

My William C seems 3 generations or so after your William.

[StephenMW]

I'm particularly interested in finding out about one of Samuel Drawbridge's daughters who, I believe, was the mother of my great-grandfather.

Elizabeth M. Drawbridge seems to have married a man named Holmes who died quite young... I haven't been able to find his first name... but they had three sons ... Harry, Charles, and Thomas. I have tried to locate information about her marriage but have been unable to do so.  She appears in the 1871 census in Woolwich as Eliza M. Drawbridge, and in the 1881 Census as Elizabeth Holmes, window(er) with the three boys Harry, 6, Thomas 4, and Charles, 3.  A search for the marriage index has not returned any promising candidates.

If anyone has the link to the elusive Mr. Holmes I'd appreciate it... marriage, birth, death or even just his full name.

I believe that this particular Harry was my great-grandfather ... but I'm not completely sure... all the dates, names, and records seem to fit. There is a difficulty with tracing him because he seems to have changed his name to Henry when he enlisted in the army... all the records as to marriage, births, etc. in the army show him as being Henry. He seems to have reverted to Harry after his discharge from the service.

Thank you,

Stephen.

[O1dgobbo]

Hello Stephen

I have not looked at the Drawbridge part of my tree for some time: my primary interest was Florence and I have not followed her sisters very closely. You query was interesting so I have had  look.

There is an Elizabeth Holmes, daughter and widow living in the Drawbridge household in 1881 and she has three children, Harry, 6, Thomas, 4, and Charles, 3, all born in Woolwich.  There is a Woolwich marriage Jul-Sep 1874 with Lilly Drawbridge and Harry Holmes as two of the three names on the page - Woolwich 1d 1385. It would greatly help your research if you were to get a copy of the certificate since it should give you Harry Holmes's occupation and the name and occupation of his father.

Harry Holmes is quite a common name and there are a number of them in the deaths April 1874 to June 1881.  Two possible husbands for Elizabeth have deaths recorded 1) Jan-Mar 1878, 38 years old, East Grinstead 2b 97 and 2} Jan-Mar 1880, 27 years old, St Geo H Sq 1a 331.

Problems with Harry becoming Henry and vice versa are not uncommon - I have had similar problems with Florence's descendants. A recruiting sergeant might well have enlisted your Grandfather as Henry on the grounds that Harry was just a diminutive - nevertheless Harry was probably his proper first name - see Births Jan-Mar 1875 Harry Holmes Woolwich 1d 1023. This birth certificate should record the full name of Harry's father and his occupation plus where the family were living at the time of the birth.

All the best

Gobbo

[StephenMW]

Thank you, Gobbo.

I'd not have of thought of looking for a Lilly Drawbridge at all... I shall probably send for either the birth certificate or the marriage certificate to verify the names.

Harry has been a traditional name in my family for some time; both my father's brother and my cousin (his sister's son) were named Harry.

When I went looking for my great grandfather, I had no idea what his first name was and there is now no one alive who'd remember him; I knew my grandmother's name, of course, and that she'd been born in India, so I went looking for regimental births and found it; all the details, of course, were for a "Henry" Holmes.

I imagine that your explanation is true... I do know my cousin has had trouble with people insisting that his name must really be Henry. Of course, then I couldn't find any records pertaining to the birth or death of a "Henry" Holmes that fit the facts. As soon as I found out he was "Harry" the pieces came together very quickly, and I made my way back to the Drawbridge family almost immediately.

I'm waiting with baited breath for FindMyPast to release the pension records for soldiers up until 1913... I can't find him in the Great War records so I'm supposing he was discharged on medical grounds before then... of course otherwise he'd have been called up since he was only 39 in 1914. He served in the South Staffordshires and his rank in the 1911 census was given as Colour Sergeant.

Anyway, thanks again, and I hope I haven't rambled on too much.

Stephen.

[O1dgobbo]

Hi Stephen

I should apologise to you for rambling on rather then vice versa. The 1881 census records Elizabeth Mary Drawbridge as Eliza Holmes, married with three sons called Holmes, living in her parents' house at 6 Pellipar Road, Woolwich. She was recorded as single in the 1871 census and I have assumed that she married a Holmes sometime between the two censuses. I can search Freebmd for a Holmes Drawbridge marriage between in that period and turn up just the one with Harry Holmes and Lilly Drawbridge on the same page and in Woolwich. You are right to be cautious about this - Lilly is not one of the usual diminutives for Elizabeth and it is not unknown for women to have children by and name them after  men to whom they are not married. The 1881 census shows Elizabeth as a widow so the husband must have died between 1875 (conception of Charles and 4 Apr 1881 (census date). I cannot see a likely death in Woolwich.

Is the Harry Holmes living with the Drawbridge family in 1881 your ancestor? I can only find the one Harry or Henry Holmes with birthplace recorded as Woolwich and born between  1874 and 1876 in the 1881 census. So if your other records confirm the birth range and birthplace it looks fairly certain that this is your man. However if the birthplace is not confirmed there are other Harry/Henry Holmes born in the London area round about that period. Elizabeth's two younger children were both in military establishments in 1891: Thomas Arthur in the Artillery at Woolwich and Charles Samuel at the Royal Military Asylum (I think a school not a lunatic asylum).

I have not traced this little group any further so I do not know what happened to them. The family seems to have developed an aversion to censuses - Florence Slade nee Drawbridge disappears after 1891 and I cannot find her four year old child or husband in the 1891 census. The child, christened Robert Henry Slade, married in 1909 under the name Harry Robert Slade after which he is easier to trace having lived well into the 20th century but his Mother's end is a bit of a mystery. His Father may have been in prison in 1901 and a lunatic asylum in 1911 but I need to check this.

All the best

Gobbo

[StephenMW]

The birthplace is confirmed as Woolwich in several records pertaining to my great - grandfather... he is definitely mentioned as having been born there, both on his military wedding and on the 1911 census, in which there is more than enough information to determine that he is my great-grandfather; including my grandmother's known birth in India in 1902. I'm pretty sure that this is the right person, although, of course, I cannot be 100% sure - I'm hoping that the military records will confirm mother's name and residence when they are finally released - supposedly later this month.

This actually seems to be the most err... disreputable... part of my background; there are several obvious cases of illegitimate children involved, for instance  . I didn't have too much trouble tracing back the Wild family since I have several original documents including my great grandfather's birth and marriage certificates; they seem to have been poor but eminently respectable cotton workers in Cheshire,  Darbyshire,  and Lancashire. I imagine the Holmes Family rather gobsmacked my great-grandmother Hannah... my dad said she was very religious... I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall when my grandparents announced their marriage in 1930 (especially since dad was already born!). 

Harry Holmes left the military some time between the 1911 census and the Great War - I can't find any evidence of service in WWI. A family story was confirmed when I received my great-grandmother's death certificate stating that he'd been an inspector for the N.S.P.C.C. in Southport... I have no idea how a boy who was born in Woolwich, then served for years in the South Staffordshires, ended up in Southport, Lancashire. Unfortunately, there is now no one alive who knows the story... I had a hard time even finding out his name.

Thanks,

Stephen.

P.S.

If you don't mind my rambling I certainly don't mind yours... it's very interesting.

[drawbridgep]

How about I start up this old thread again?      I was just googling this morning and found this thread.

orangecat, I think I know who you are, so we may have already discussed this info...

William's father was Charles who married Mary
Charles' brothers were Harry and John

Their father was Samuel (married to Harriet)  siblings were John, Bethsheba, thomas, Phebe, Edward, Mary and Ann

Their father was John (married to Mary) siblings were Thomas, Samuel, Nanny and Eleanor

Their father was John (born 1742) and that's as far back as I got.

[Shaninne]

Hi, my name is Shaninne and I am daughter to Donald Frank Drawbridge and granddaughter to Otto and May Drawbridge.

At the start of this thread in 2010 "orangecat" posted a picture of Otto and his family but the names are linked over the wrong people.

Firstly, I would love to get a copy of that photo, and secondly would like to get more info on my grandparents and back further if possible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Shaninne

[O1dgobbo]

Hi Shannine Shaninne
Welcome to RootsChat - I hope that someone can help you. Probably orangecat is the person you most need to be in touch with. When you have posted two more replies you will get access to the personal messaging system in RC and can write to him directly. If you post a thank you for this that counts as one of your two extra posts and perhaps for the other one you might say which of the two photographs is wrongly labelled.
All the best
Gobbo
PS Sorry I got Shaninne wrong first time - right number of n's but wrong arrangement!