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Author Topic: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census  (Read 12186 times)

Offline lilylaces

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Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« on: Monday 15 March 10 13:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

I've been trying to find my GGrandfather James Carpenter, (b1872, Southampton) he was a merchant seaman.
I wondered if the merchant navy was included in the military overseas lists on the 1911 census, I did buy one record (no birth year listed) but it wasn't the right one and all the others are wrong birth years.  I can't find him in 1891 either. Do you think I have any hope of pinning him down in these years? I have no idea which ships he may have served on.

I'd be very grateful for any advice!
Many thanks!

 
Darney in Cork, later in Wales. Harry in Carmarthen. Lyons in Cardiff and Ireland (Cork?), Smith, Carpenter in Southampton (Dibden and Beaulieu). Brown, Barnes in Bransgore, Ringwood, Southampton. Bull in Boldre. Wort in Downton, Wiltshire. Shaw, Titterington in Lancaster. Wake, Ferguson in Sunderland.

Online CaroleW

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Re: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« Reply #1 on: Monday 15 March 10 18:26 GMT (UK) »
As far as I am aware - it's the same situation for the 1911 as for earlier censuses.

Unless the ship was docked in a British/Welsh/Scottish port on census night then no record was taken

If they were in the Royal Navy - there will be a record irrespective of where the ship was

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline lilylaces

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Re: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« Reply #2 on: Monday 15 March 10 19:12 GMT (UK) »
Oh thank you Carole.
I didn't realise the ship had to be in dock.  ::)  That explains a lot.
Darney in Cork, later in Wales. Harry in Carmarthen. Lyons in Cardiff and Ireland (Cork?), Smith, Carpenter in Southampton (Dibden and Beaulieu). Brown, Barnes in Bransgore, Ringwood, Southampton. Bull in Boldre. Wort in Downton, Wiltshire. Shaw, Titterington in Lancaster. Wake, Ferguson in Sunderland.

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« Reply #3 on: Monday 15 March 10 21:35 GMT (UK) »
Any attempt to describe the enumeration of the merchant marine in the censuses is a very complex business. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,430031.msg2947035.html#msg2947035

Stan
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Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« Reply #4 on: Monday 15 March 10 22:10 GMT (UK) »
I have a James Carpenter age 18 in 1889 born Hampshire on board the vessel CAMBRIAN official number 56027 GRT.48 POR. Cowes, formally Swansea. Previous vessel ATHENIAN. Rank Lad. January/June 1889.

Also a J Carpenter age 19 in 1890 born Hampshire on board the vessel ALKELDA official number 68564 GRT.87 POR. Portsmouth. previous vessel ALKELDA. Rank 2nd Cook.
July/Dec1890

I suggest these entries relate to the same man, wether or not he is the person you seek is another matter but a believe there is a strong possibility.

The crew agreements from which these details are taken are in Portsmouth record office.
Viewing the originals may give you further information.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022

Offline lilylaces

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Re: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 16 March 10 06:42 GMT (UK) »
Thanks so much for your help Stan and seaweed.

Stan thank you for the link, I had no idea it was so complex! The Miramar ship index is vast. 

Seaweed - thanks! That's very interesting and looks hopeful too, I would love to find out more about James' career, he was a merchant seaman all his life, he died in 1944. My grandmother missed him very much when he was away and was always very excited when she knew he would be coming home.

I'll have to get to the Portsmouth record office somehow! I'm living in Ireland at the moment but I'll try to get as much information as I can and plan a quick trip.  :)

Many thanks again - feel I have some chance of finding James now.
Darney in Cork, later in Wales. Harry in Carmarthen. Lyons in Cardiff and Ireland (Cork?), Smith, Carpenter in Southampton (Dibden and Beaulieu). Brown, Barnes in Bransgore, Ringwood, Southampton. Bull in Boldre. Wort in Downton, Wiltshire. Shaw, Titterington in Lancaster. Wake, Ferguson in Sunderland.

Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 16 March 10 07:46 GMT (UK) »
If he was a Merchant seaman all his life, I am sure he would have records from 1919 in the fourth register of merchant seamen central index.
Type into Google "Southampton city archive central index" and take it from there. It will cost you £15 up front to find out.
Cheaper than Ryanair.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022

Offline lilylaces

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Re: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 16 March 10 08:31 GMT (UK) »
 :D  That's good news seaweed! I'll do that. Many thanks!
Darney in Cork, later in Wales. Harry in Carmarthen. Lyons in Cardiff and Ireland (Cork?), Smith, Carpenter in Southampton (Dibden and Beaulieu). Brown, Barnes in Bransgore, Ringwood, Southampton. Bull in Boldre. Wort in Downton, Wiltshire. Shaw, Titterington in Lancaster. Wake, Ferguson in Sunderland.

Offline marionq

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Re: Merchant Seaman on 1911 Census
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 07 April 11 20:35 BST (UK) »
This topic interests me very much as my gt uncle was on a merchant ship I think as a steward.  He was later killed in 1917 by a torpedo off the African coast.

His name was John (Robertson) Kyle b 1886 and in 1911 was single.  His young wife was devastated and emigrated from Scotland with her young son to the USA.  I just found his grand-daughter last year and so we are very excited at finding out about him and how the story unfolded.
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