Mansfields of Derby. Can anyone help?

[Keitht]

William Mansfield. b. abt 1721, married Martha Henchley on 21 September 1746 at All Saints. He then married Mary Storer, again at All Saints, on 4th August 1754. He had three children, George Storer Mansfield, Sarah and Elizabeth with Mary.

Various documents suggest that there were children feom his first marriage, with some evidence that a male child died quite young.

Please can anyone shed any further light on this fanily?

Keith

[spendlove]

Hello Keith,

Just wondered if you had made typing error re wife of William Mansfield.

George Storer Mansfield Bpt. 24.9.1764 St. Werburgh Derby EXTRACTED RECORD from Parish Register
per IGI was the son of William Mansfield & Sarah.  The marriage you show in on the IGI but is a Patron
Submitted entry.

Other Children Bpt to William & Sarah Mansfield all  EXTRACTED RECORDS at St. Werburgh, Derby:-

William 1763
George Storer 1764
Sarah 1767
John 1770
Elizabeth 1772

Spendlove

[Keitht]

Thanks for that. I was obviously not concentrating when I typed the original message.

I am actually researching Spring Hill College, a religious teaching centre established by this family in Birmingham in the 1820s. It later moved to become Masfield College, Oxford. Back in the 1950s the college employed a geneaalogist to sort out the family line and he found a Wm Mansfield/Mary Storer marriage in Derby at the right time, so assumed that this was the parents.

Upon checking the parish records I discovered that the mother was in fact Sarah Storer. as you rightly say. This is confirmed by burial records for St Mary.s Whittall St., Birmingham, where Sarah Mansfield Jr's husband, Charles Glover, was buried alongside his mother-in-law, Sarah Mansfield. I also found all five siblings - something of a surprise, since we had only ever been aware of three.

For some reason I must have been thinking of the original error when I typed my post. Thanks for the correction.

Despite research over a four year period I have not been able to conclusively determine the parentage of either William Mansfield or Sarah Storer, which is crucial in determining whether the family had a right to use the heraldic design which it conferred on Spring Hill College.

Keith

[spendlove]

Hello Keith,

I do understand, have you obtained the following information:-

1.  When and to Whom with the Mansfield Name were the arms
     first granted and in which County were they residing?

2.   You need the full description of the Arms as Granted.

3. Harleian Society published a list of people who were granted arms between 1687 - 1898, have you consulted this?

4. Do the Arms displayed by Mansfield College, conform with the original
    or do they come from a Cadet branch?

Having established the above, depending when granted, you can consult
the Heralds' Visitations.

Regards
Spendlove

[Keitht]

This is where life gets complicated.

The arms as I have them, full heraldic description somewhere in my files. appear to have been granted to a de Mansfeld family in Yorkshire back in the 1500s but we have no evidence to suggest that the Mansfields are descended from them. Nor indeed is there any evidence that the family used their arms. A new Spring Hill College was built between 1854 and 1856, after their deaths and it may simply be that the architect went searching for a device associated with the name Mansfield with which to adorn his building.

This became tricky in 1955, when Mansfield College applied for full membership of Oxford University and the College of Heralds queried their right to the arms, lifted from Spring Hill. It was at this point that they engaged a professional genealogist, who seems to have made a complete dog's breakfast of his research (I have his notes), with the result that the college was obliged to commission a new coat of arms.

My interest stems from the fact that I attended Moseley Grammar School, then housed in the old SHC building, between 1956 and 1962, at which time the entire history of the building had been lost. A few years ago the then Deputy Head of the successor school, of which I was then a governor and which was still housed in the same building, and I determined to investigate and we are now almost ready to publish our findings.

Needless to say, Mansfield College also have a keen interest in resolving this particular puzzle.

Keith

[spendlove]

Hello Keith,

Think it is important that you compare the Arms issued C1500 to De Mansfield and the Arms used by the
School/College there is possible no connection which can only be discovered when a close inspection of
both has been done.  Would suggest that the College of Arms know this and why they objected, it could
also be that, assuming your Mansfield Family were Armorial and had a right to bear arms they did not
have the right to give its use or the College to take and use it.

Have you considered the following in relation to the information on the family:-

1.  How do you know that William Mansfield who first married 23.9.1746 to Martha Henchley is the
     same Wm Mansfield who is said to have married Sarah Storer 4.8.1754?

2. I have checked the IGI and also Phillimore's Marriage Transcripts and there is NO 1754 marriage
    recorded, the item which appear on the IGI is a Patron Submitted item and you should be cautious.

3.  Do you not think it odd that if a marriage did take place in 1754 there were no children until 1763?

Considering item 3, I have come up with a different marriage EXTRACTED  12.4.1762 Burton on Trent, Staffordshire
Will. Mansfield = Sarah Storer.  This puts the birth of the first child approx 2 years after the marriage
which is about the norm.  This also possibly changes the birth date of William (considering 1).

Not an answer, but hope it assists with thought process.

Spendlove



     

[Keitht]

Hi Sendlove,

You found exactly the same Burton marriage which I found once I realised that the mother's name was Sarah. As to the Henchley marriage, evidence is only anecdotal but it really doesn't matter because it is the marriage in Burton which concerns us. I had thought about the apparent time lapse between the Henchley marriage and first birth but have not done any research to determine whether, if that is the right William, there were any offspring of that marriage.

To be honest, I am loth to involve the College of Heralds because I seriously doubt that either Spring Hill College or the schools which have subsequently occupied the building have any historic right to the arms. THe schools have been using a variation as their badge since 1922 and I consider that sufficient history to offer the badge a degree of legitimacy. As I said earlier, I reckon the arms, which are cut in stone above the entrance to the building, were probably nothing more than the whim of the architect. who had sufficient ego to inlay his own initials, using black bricks in a red brick wall.

There is also the small problem that whilst the school has provided a small budget for our research I doubt it would run to paying College of Heralds bills.

Can't see your post whilst typing this but was very interested in your reference to a marriage diretory previously unknown to me. I will have to return to that and take a closer look.

Regards,

Keith

[Almond Tree]

I was interested to read this thread.  I am researching Alvaston Hall in Alvaston, Derby and found that in 1826 George Storer Mansfield had given ‘benefit of certain freehold houses, lands and hereditaments at Alvaston' to Springfield College.  These surrounded Alvaston Hall and were purchased by Herbert Dagley (Conveyance 29th September 1872) when they were auctioned at Derby.  The Charity Commission Spring Hill College, Maseley, Yardley, Worcester had agreed it would be advantageous to sell property in Alvaston for £570' -  ‘A double fronted house in the village of Alvaston in the County of Derby with stabling, barn, cowshed, piggeries, garden and orchard together with a close of pasture land known as ‘The Parson’s Green’ adjoining thereto and containing in the whole 4 acres 2 rods 27 perches or thereabouts.  The bundle of documents also includes a Statement by builder William Sherwin describing houses and plots of land owned by Spring Hill College at Alvaston and he has repaired them for many years:  Parsons Green, Nolway Croft, Fields on Field Lane.  All sold by auction Royal Hotel Derby on 2nd August 1872.  Tracing who originally owned this land - before George Storer Mansfield may provide some indication of the family in Derby.
Good luck - Helen Ainsworth

[spendlove]

Hello Helen,

The bundle of documents to which you refer - are these in a private collection?

If not could you give reference numbers and in which Collection they are held.

Spendlove