Scottish Howarth's in Lancashire

[47813]

Hello,

I had one of those moments tonight when you wonder what else is lurking away in older relatives minds.

I've been doing family history for several years now. The hardest and so far least successful family on my tree is the HOWARTH's
Thats my mother's maiden name...

So anyhows, My grandmother has been very interested in seeing what I have found on her side of the family, and as they and other family are over, talking heards over this topic.

My grandfather then asks how far I have got with his side. I say not very. Then comes 'Did you know the Howarth's going way back, are from Sterling?'

I looks in amazement and says 'Sterling?'
'Yes, Sterling'
'As in Sterling in Scotland?'
'Yes'


I was always under the impression the Howarth's went way back in the Rochdale area, which is where all the family I have are from.
Its funny when you just presume!

So many theads on this site have been started by me, when ever I embark on a new (always fruitless) search for JOHN HOWARTH - My Grandfather's, Grandfather - the farest back I have the Howarths. A sad 1865.

He was born according to 1891, 1901 and 1911 census in abt1865 (give or take a couple of years) in Rochdale. He lives as far as census and death go in Rochdale area.
He married Eliza Bridgens in 1889, again in Rochdale.

Sadly on his Marriage certifcate he gives nothing as to his father.

As you can see, there are quite a few Jonh Howarth's from Rochdale of that age.

Armed with this new information , can anyone find this Sterling connection???

I've tried the 1881 census and the only Sterling Howarth I can find is James Howarth. He is four and lives with his family at 27 Portland Road, Oldham.
His parents are both from Manchester and his older siblings are from Sheffield!

Does anything like likely in the '71,'61, 51 and '41 censuses???

Thankyou very much

Jonathan

[garstonite]

Hiya Jonathon.....ask your grandad when he says Stirling    is that the city of Stirling or Stirling as the county of Stirlingshire....there`s a John Howarth b 1843 Stirlingshire... 
the earliest Howarth b Stirling I can see at the moment is 1877....later than your 1865 birth...
but John Howarth b 1843 Stirlingshire is spot on for being the father of a child b 1865..try and get your grandad to confirm if it was the city or the county of Stirling.....allan

[rosie99]

Hi

As the marriage certificate doesn't give a father he could have been illegitimate.  Who were the witnesses ?

Rosie

[James1950]

I have always assumed that Howarth was Lancastrian in origin. I have been researching the Heyworth family which has strong Lancastrian roots.

The problem is that pre 1800s the spelling of the surname depended on the vicar or Parish clerk's understanding of the correct spelling.

You may find as I have  that you have past relatives called Haworth, Heyworth, Hewerth, Hayworth, Howorth etc.

James

[47813]

Hi,

Thankyou all for your information and advice. It would seem to have been a red herring as far as the ending of the brick wall that is JOHN HOWARTH.

My Grandfather said his two elder sister's had old clothes handed down from these Howarth's in Scotland.
That would put the time at 1920's/30's

Its looking like a sibling of either my Grandfather's father or John Howarth.

Still why move the Sterling? - If there's family there, then maybe thats why.

Allan, which did you get the John Howarth b1843 Sterlingshire from a census, if so which one?
Is he with any family?

Rosie, There are two witnesses, the father and sister of his bride Eliza 

Only other information is that he was living at time of marriage in 1889 at 4 Arnold Street, Rochdale - Sadly this is 8 years after last census.

If anyone really wants a challenge, family legend if you will has it that Jack Howarth (born John Aubrey Conway Howarth) who played Albert Tatlock in Corrie was related.
I have Jack's birth certifcate and his parents Richard Howarth and Amelia Townsend's marriage certicate and I can't find that link.

Richard Howarth was born 1870/71 at marriage in 1894 was living at 82 Milkstone Road. His father was John Howarth a Book-keeper.
Amelia was born 1874 and at marriage was living at 96 Mitchell Street. Her father was James Edward Townsend, an Accountant.

The witnesses were Alfred Ashworth, Samuel Thomas, Janet Howarth and Minnie Townsend.

I've been at this little brick wall for some yers and am beginning to think the family story is myth and John Howarth just didn't know his father and neither will I.

Thankyou

Joanthan

[garstonite]

Johnathon.......John Howarth b 1843 Stirlingshire is in a members family tree on GR....
413  Howarth family trees on geneanet.org    about half are English, the rest all over the world...trawl through them and see if any are from Stirling/Stirlingshire.....allan

[trish1120]

Possible as no Fathers name is given on Marriage Cert.

From IGI;
John Turner HOWARTH
Birth 07 May 1864
Christened 09 October 1864, St Chads, Rochdale, Lancs
Mother KEZIAH Howarth

Now interestingly on the same batch is a christening of John William HOWARTH, 14 Oct 1860 St Chads, born 12 September 1860, Mother Keziah

1861 Census
Rochdale, Lancs
RG9/3044/118/17

James HOWARTH, 50, Head, Mar, Stoker machine shop, born Rochdale
Betty, 57, Wife, Mar, born Yks, Barkisland
KEZIA, 21, Daug, Unm, Woolen powerloom weaver, born Rochdale
Ann, 19, Daug, Unm, ditto, born Rochdale
Joseph, 16, Son, Unm, Factory worker, born Rochdale
Sarah J ROBINSHAW, 5, Grand/daug, born Rochdale
John W HOWARTH, 7mths, Grand/son, born Rochdale
Joseph LONGBOTTOM, 22, Boarder, Labourer, born Yks,Barkisland

So if this John died Keziah has another in 1864. She could have then married and John appears on 1871'1881 Census under her married name.
He then reverts to his name to marry in 1889.

No connection to Stirling but just a theory

[trish1120]

1871 Census
Wardleworth, Rochdale, Lancs
RG10/2145/112/13

Squire WHITHAM, 31, Head, Mar, Mechanic, born Bradford, Yorkshire
KEZIAH, 31, Wife, Mar, Woolen weaver
Mary H, 8, Daug
John J, 4, Son
Walter, 2, Son
John William HOWORTH , 10, Stepson
JOHN HOWORTH, 6, Stepson
All others born Rochdale except Squire