Author Topic: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms  (Read 9337 times)

Offline amac1210

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Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« Reply #18 on: Friday 21 February 20 09:46 GMT (UK) »
I found some further information online but not sure on their sources - https://trove.nla.gov.au/list?id=21722. As you can see it makes John Douglas born c.1640 the son of Andrew Douglas born c.1612. He in turn is son of Stephen Douglas born c.1567, son of Andrew Douglas born c.1538. This Andrew appears as son of another Andrew Douglas born c.1519, to a father named Archibald Douglas born c.1495. Archibald was son of Andrew Douglas who murdered Thomas Rutherford in Jedburgh Abbey, but who was pardoned by King James IV, along with the fellow conspirators. This Andrew appears to have been son of George Douglas born c.1441, in turn son of George Douglas born c.1419, son of John Douglas born c.1392. His mother was Marguerite Douglas born c.1376, a very young mother. She was finally the daughter of William Douglas, 1st Earl of Douglas. He fathered Marguerite and another child outside of marriage, with his brother-in-law's wife Margaret Stewart. The family no doubt links to Royal lines this far back, I've not looked at all the marriages. I can say Margaret Stewart has connections to the High Stewards and earlier Nobility of Scotland.

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Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« Reply #19 on: Friday 21 February 20 10:18 GMT (UK) »
I found some further information online but not sure on their sources - https://trove.nla.gov.au/list?id=21722.
Hmmm. Without proper sources you are very wise to question this.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline rockhopper

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Offline amac1210

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Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 22 February 20 10:58 GMT (UK) »
The Douglas Archives seem to accept this line, but I'm not sure precisely where they get the information from. I might contact them for more detail. It does look as though they are fairly confident about it though. My main line of inquiry is the James Douglas of Kilmarnock, the gardener, and whether he connects to Jedburgh. Seems to have hit a "brick wall" here, and the Archives people didn't have anything to add on this point.


Offline rockhopper

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Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 22 February 20 22:34 GMT (UK) »
Have you looked at these -  Nisbet’s Heraldry, Heraldry of the Douglas, the Douglas Book, Parliament of Scotland historical records, Douglas Scott’s Hawick Word Book, Hawick Archives Hub, Scotlands People, the National Archives of Scotland, England - House of Lords and Commons Archives, State Papers of England, The National Library of Scotland especially the Manuscripts, UK Genealogy Archives - various, the Roll of Clans in Scotland, Annals of the Border Club (Tancred), Decisions of the Court of Lord Lyon in relation to Bonjedward and Timpendean, Decisions of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland, papers and books on the Middle Marches, Electric Scotland, the Privy Council Register of Scotland, A Topographical Dictionary of Scotland, Gazetter for Scotland, the Scotland Gazette, the London Gazette, Royal Charters of Scotland, Royal Highland Society of Scotland - Members, the Gentleman’s Magazine (Scotland), Journals of the Scottish Meteorological Society, National Biography of Scotland, Scotland Fasti Ecclesiae, Kinross Museum Annals, Melrose Abbey Regalty Records, Jedburgh Abbey (D Douglas), Charters relating to Jedburgh Abbey, Jedburgh Abbey Gravestones, Scots Peerage (Wood), the Minto Charters, A2A Archives documents, Rampant Scotland Historical Battles, UK Battlefields Resource Centre, Letters and Papers to Kings of England, Letters to the Queen of England, The History and Antiquities of Roxburghshire (Jeffrey), Scottish - Bonds, Deeds, Instruments of Sasine, Percepts of Clare Constat, Leases and Granter’s Seals; Calendars of Border Papers, Papers of Archibald Jerdon of Bonjedward, Edinburgh Almanac, Register of Jedburgh, Lothian papers, Historical Manuscripts Commission of Scotland, Retours of Inquest, Great Seal Register of Scotland, Manuscripts of the Duke of Athole and the Earl of Home, Ancient Criminal Trials (Pitcairn), University of Sterling research papers - various, People of Medieval Scotland (POMS), St Andrews University history, Oxford University - people, and Edinburgh Apprentices? These are some of the references I referred to. Plus William Douglas asked me to write on Bonjedward and Timpendean.

Offline rockhopper

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Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 23 February 20 00:11 GMT (UK) »
More references - An Account of the Valley of Rule and its Inhabitants (Tancred), Letters Patent, the Holinshed Texts or Chronicles, Landed Proprietors of Scotland; Barons, Laird and Chief Gentlemen of Scotland, Rolls of Freeholders in Jedburgh, Census Records (Jedburgh), Land Tax Rolls for Roxburghshire, Edinburgh Testaments, Peebles Testaments, the Douglas Emerald Charter, Declaration of Arbroath, Balliol Roll - includes Douglas, Jedburgh Council Burgess Rolls, Parishes of Scotland, Population of Jedburgh, Charters of Fue Farm, Douglas of Cruik history, Chancery Records - National Archives of Scotland, Sheriffs of Teviotdale and Roxburgh, English Martyrs - George Douglas was a Martyr, Buccleuch Papers and Numinents, Jedburgh Forest Club Members, Family Search, History of the Sufferings of the Church of Scotland... (R Wodrow), the Royal Collection, Art of Edwin James Douglas, Edinburgh Photography, Lairds and Gentlemen of the Eastern Borders ... (M Meikle), Returns of Lords and Heritages of Roxburghshire, old Scottish maps at the National Library of Scotland, Commissions by Mary Queen of Scots, Scottish Indexes, Froissant’s Chronicles, the Douglas Archives and History, Acts of General Assemblies of Scotland, Kirk of Scotland history, Clan Douglas of Australia, Douglas of Cavers history, Westminster Abbey Burials (Lady Margaret Douglas of Lennox and King James 1), Ancestry.co.uk records, Fisher’s Colonial Magazine ..., Colonial Magazine ..., Genealogical Memoirs of the family of Sir Walter Scott (C Rogers), Wardens of the Marches - Douglas, Douglas Crests including Bonjedward and Timpendean, the Douglas Heart, Glasgow Burgesses and Guild Brethren, Patrick Douglas - Priest and Musician, Rev. Walter Douglas of Bonjedward, Hugh Douglas of Dreghorn, William Douglas of Cunzierton, the Laird’s Houses of Scotland (R Strachan), Historic Environment - Scotland, Earls of Angus, Canmore, Scotland, Border Archaeology, Geograph.co.uk, the Battle of Teba, Pilgrimages to the Canterbury Cathedral - Douglas, Douglas art of Andrew Spratt, Tantallon Castle, Battle of Largs, Battle of Poitiers in France, Battle of Melrose, Siege of Lochmaben Castle, Barony of West Calder, the British Museum, the British Library, Notarial Instruments and Indentures (Scotland) and British Heritage Buildings.

Offline rockhopper

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Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 23 February 20 02:09 GMT (UK) »
Plus - Douglas Castle - Douglasdale, St Brides Church in Douglas, Lanarkshire (not two by the name of St Brides), Battle of Bannockburn, Bonjedward Lands and Inheritance, Fray or Raid of Redeswire and Skirmish at Sclaterford. All the topics and references are valid for research on the Douglases of Bonjedward and Timpendean.

Offline amac1210

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Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 23 February 20 10:48 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks for all those. I don’t know how I would begin as regards finding out about James Douglas, gardener in Kilmarnock though. But these do help flesh out the background of the lines going farther back. Searching these sources seems somewhat professional too, accessing them is often difficult itself. I imagine most aren’t yet online?

But, at the risk of sounding pedantic, it is very important to know exactly where each fact is referenced. This is easy with Scotland's People records, but takes more effort for all those you mentioned. If I don't know which source is used to justify John Douglas born c.1640 being son of Andrew Douglas born c.1612, I'd be well justified in doubting it. The same goes for one or two other links in that line maybe.

Offline amac1210

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Re: Jedburgh - Douglas Baptisms
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 23 February 20 22:46 GMT (UK) »
Navigated a bit through the pages you sent, rockhopper. Looks well sourced. The only missing link is whether we can identify John born c.1640, who became apprentice cordiner in Edinburgh, as the same man who fathered James born c.1669? Then, I wonder if we can find anything on James born 1727, whether he connects with James who married Janet Sim in 1745, Loudoun, Ayrshire?