Author Topic: Marine Store Dealer  (Read 15871 times)

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 31 March 10 09:13 BST (UK) »
Quote
How does this differ from what I posted 


What?

I was only interested if, when you searched the term further, you found that what the term meant was different to what I said.

Stan
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Offline MUMMYG

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #10 on: Friday 02 April 10 22:16 BST (UK) »
This is an interesting topic. 
Just to add to the list, I too have a marine store dealer in St Helens run by a John Murphy who is Irish and lives with his sister and later his wife, he isnt technically mine but only adopted one of 'my' orphan children.
ARNOLD, PARTINGTON, FOSTER in StHelens
BEBBINGTON, FINDLOW in Northwich
BURROWS,Billinge,Northwich
DUMBILL/DUMBELL, Gt Sankey, St Helens
EDMUNDSON in Northumberland, Warrington, St Helens, Manchester
HENDERSON, Northumberland,St Helens
LIPTROTT, Billinge
BURROWS, Billinge, Northwich

BOAST, Suffolk,Widnes,St Helens :-
http://rattyclan.tribalpages.com/

https://sites.google.com/view/ss-samwater

Offline scintilla

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 19 January 12 14:35 GMT (UK) »
Just to add somethings from my research. I have several marine store dealers in my ancestry. They are not from gypsy stock and seem to have taken up the trade, just I think as a way to make a living. Sometimes they describe themselves as general dealers. Because when I first uncovered them they were living in coastal or river areas of Kent I took it as a literal trade in goods related to nautical vessels, however having found some who were living inland it does appear to refer to a broader dealership in waste materials as described by stanmapstone. And yes some did get in trouble for receiving stolen goods!

Offline RichardK

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 19 January 12 15:16 GMT (UK) »
My 2g grandfather was a marine store dealer - which initially intrigued me as he lived in Bedfordshire - not only is the county landlocked, but every county it borders is landlocked too.

As well as a marine store dealer he described himself as a general dealer and rag and bone man.  With the British Newspaper Archive I've also found recently that he was a convicted diamond thief and stole clothes from his parents and sisters to sell.

Not aware of any Gypsy connections on that side though - his family appears to have been publicans and dealers for some years before he was born and reasonably settled in one area.

R
Kelly, Birkenhead & Co. Kildare
Marshall, Luton & area
Reid, Co. Kildare & Dublin
Cox, Barnack Northamptonshire
Edwards, Pagham, Sussex & area
Scott, Roxburghshire & Perthshire
Mitchell, Warwickshire
Savage, Hampshire


Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 19 January 12 16:16 GMT (UK) »
If you look at my post you will see that although a gypsy could be a marine-store dealer, a marine-store dealer was not necessarily anything to do with gypsies. There were 1,550 marine-store dealers in the 1851 census, and 3,656 in 1861.
If you search for 'marine store dealer' in occupation in the 1881 census, there are 2,566 listed and they are located all over the country.
Stan
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Offline LouisaS

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 03 February 19 19:29 GMT (UK) »
My Great  grandfather from  Sheffield  was a Marine Store Dealer, it was in the family, he  used  his second name   sometimes , then  his first name , moved and brought it with them Marine Sore Dealer, I guessed it  wasn't  a great job, was   told he sold a forest through the demon drink, that could be  another story

Offline Althea7

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 04 June 19 15:24 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find out if there is any information about the shops that Marine Store Keepers had?

My great, great grandfather Thomas Greenwood is described as a Marine Store Keeper on various records.

He was baptised on 20th July 1817 in Hebden Bridge, Heptonstall St Thomas, and came to Manchester with his parents and siblings between about 1827 and 1830, and is on the 1841 census with his parents and siblings in Silk Street, Manchester.  His marriage on 29th June 1846 at Manchester Cathedral to Bridget Ward, gives his residence as 30 Angel Street, Manchester, and his job as Marine Store Keeper.  Bridget's father is described on the marriage record as James Ward, labourer, born Ireland.

On the 1846 birth certificate of his son, my great grandfather Hiram Greenwood, born 20th September 1846, at Henry Street, Ancoats, Manchester (though other records say Hiram was born in Hulme, and Henry Street was the address where Thomas' father Henry Greenwood died in March 1847), Thomas' job is given as Waste Dealer.

On the 1848 birth certificate of his younger son James Henry Greenwood, on 7th January 1848 at Cellar, 48 Medlock Street, Hulme, Thomas is described as a Marine Store Keeper.

On the 1851 living at 3, Clegg Court, Hulme, Thomas is described as a Broker.  Age 32, with wife Bridget 28, sons Hiram 4, and James 3, and Bridget's younger siblings.

On the 1852 Whellan and Co's Directory of Manchester, Thomas Greenwood is described as a Pawnbroker, at 66 Carruthers Street.  Not sure this is him, could be.

On the 1855 Slaters Directory of Manchester, Thomas Greenwood, Marine Store Keeper, River Street. This is just round the corner from Medlock Street where his younger son was born.  I feel fairly certain this is him.  This reference particularly I would like to find out where his shop was and if I can identify the premises on a map?

Thomas's whole family is absent from the 1861 census, though son Hiram turns up on the 1871 census in Salford with Irish born wife Mary Ann (Roche) and two infant daughters.  1867 death of Bridget on 30th December at 1 Court, Bennett Street, now Bendix Street, Ancoats, wife of Thomas Greenwood, porter, Chronic Bronchitis, age 49.  1871 lodger age 52, born Hepdon (sic) Bridge, Card Dealer, Market Street, with wife Anne age 40.

1873 Whitesmith, 23 Long Millgate, UK City and County Directories.

1873 death 12th March at 63 Long Millgate, age 56, Card Picker, Died of Cardiac Bronchitis Anasarca, Informant Ann Greenwood.

15th March 1873 burial, Philips Park cemetery.

I would also like to see if there is a link with his father in law, James Ward?

James Ward was mentioned on the marriage record of Thomas Greenwood and Bridget Ward in 1846, Manchester, labourer, born Ireland.

1841 census, has a James Ward age 40, Broker, born Ireland, residence Medlock Street, Hulme, with others including Anne age 15 and head Hector Chalmers, age 40, Agent, born Ireland.  James Ward's grandson James Henry Greenwood was born at Cellar, 48 Medlock Street, Hulme, in January 1848 and Thomas Greenwood had a Marine Store just round the corner in River Street in 1855.

The 1861 census in Cross Street, Collegiate, Manchester,  has James Ward head age 65 shoemaker born County Meath, Ireland with wife Ann 60 shoe seller born County Meath Ireland and daughter Ann 35 shoe maker unmarried born County Meath Ireland.

I am wondering if the Ann Greenwood living with Thomas Greenwood on the 1871 census, and the Informant at his death, was the younger sister of Thomas' first wife Bridget Ward?  I can't find a marriage for them, but Bridget died on 30th December 1867.

I would love to find out if James Ward was in the same business as Thomas Greenwood.  Their families seem close, Bridget's younger siblings, Betsy and John Ward,  were living with Thomas and family on the 1851 census, and it could be Ann Ward who married Thomas after his wife and her older sister Bridget died.

Where would I find out more about the physical location of Marine Stores in Hulme, Manchester and more about their owners?  And Thomas is alternatively described as a Broker, was this just another term for a Marine Store Keeper?  James Ward is also described on the 1841 census as a Broker, living with another Irish born Broker as head of house.

And what was a Card Dealer and a Card Picker.  I am almost sure it was something to do with the cotton industry and Cards something to do with Cotton, but it could be something to do with gambling, I don't really know?  Was it some kind of broker in Cards used in the Cotton industry?

Offline stanmapstone

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 04 June 19 15:54 BST (UK) »
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Offline Althea7

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Re: Marine Store Dealer
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 04 June 19 15:59 BST (UK) »
Duplicate post https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=813913.msg6747176#msg6747176

Stan

I was going to delete the one on this thread, as it probably needs more local knowledge to get any answers?