Author Topic: help with romany links  (Read 26763 times)

Offline rob g

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help with romany links
« on: Wednesday 31 March 10 14:06 BST (UK) »
hi, all as with many of our members, i am a full blood traveller/gypsy, i see many questions asked about romany people. and would be willing to give any advice as to ways rituals customs etc,also with old romany surnames mostly in the north of england,but i may be able to help with lots of questions about gypsy life old and new.. rob g
romany history, mitchell family history. Earthenware. general . And horse. I dealers/hawkers. market trading.  lancashire. cumbria. staffordshire.scotland. paternal, side. wilson. lee. burton. miller .burnside. Smith. varey. howard. Jones. Lowther. Evens. Ward. Dale.maternal, side. miller cumbria, stewert. mitchell. allan. Ireland. donaghue, Kelly. Murphy. Young. Plus many others. .

Offline Ceeoh

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Re: help with romany links
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 03 April 10 17:18 BST (UK) »
Not sure if this falls into the category you are offering.

Looking at Smith, Burnside and perhaps Bradley in the Guisborough (and perhaps South Durham) area.

Would a girl child born Burnside "marry" a Bradley (no record of marrriage), then become Smith (single woman).  Would there be any reasons for this in traveller customs?  The Smith continued the association with the Burnside when she married by "legal" means in a church.

Ceeoh

Offline kdyangie

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Re: help with romany links
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 03 April 10 20:29 BST (UK) »
help plz
 I grew up being told we had links to romany gypsy.  I have passed this story onto my own children but want to find facts.  Its on my fathers side - surnames so far mackie, doe (although i have been told this was sometimes dow), fisher and wise or wyse, fisher and paton.  No one left on my fathers side to ask. 

Should I be looking at any of these names???  Most of these families are in fife, scotland.  Can anyone help me on my journey????
mackie, dow, speed, Paton, fisher, cheney, shivers (scotland)


Offline rob g

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Re: help with romany links
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 04 April 10 09:53 BST (UK) »
hi , kdyangie, paton and fisher are gypsy related names. try following those up at first.there are too many sites to mention on romanys, but a good one to start is romany genes, get on to these,and you will definetly find some fishers there. olso look for occupations in the census.hawkers, dealers etc, and at the name of spouses as these can be a good source of info on romany names and familys. good luck..rob g
romany history, mitchell family history. Earthenware. general . And horse. I dealers/hawkers. market trading.  lancashire. cumbria. staffordshire.scotland. paternal, side. wilson. lee. burton. miller .burnside. Smith. varey. howard. Jones. Lowther. Evens. Ward. Dale.maternal, side. miller cumbria, stewert. mitchell. allan. Ireland. donaghue, Kelly. Murphy. Young. Plus many others. .

Offline rob g

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Re: help with romany links
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 04 April 10 10:17 BST (UK) »
hi, ceeoh, smith and burnside are old romany names, i myself am related to both. they also come from the county durham area.as to the name change,if it was a long time back, men and women both re married soon after losing a partner,there was no benefits or aid so they would need support and help with living costs, and would remarry, often very quickly.also travelling women would, and still do, go by there maiden names. so a girl could be known as burnside and smith at the same time ie  annie burnside,would still be called that even though she wed a smith, any other name may be again, be that she remarried more than once.my own g.grandfather on both maternal and parernal sides was was married three times to gypsy women. and my g.mother twice it was the norm in victorian times and futher back. as to the marriage certs item, as romanys moved around a lot and they can be hard to trace,but romany people are very strict and nearly allways were married,as opposed to living together.good luck. rob g
romany history, mitchell family history. Earthenware. general . And horse. I dealers/hawkers. market trading.  lancashire. cumbria. staffordshire.scotland. paternal, side. wilson. lee. burton. miller .burnside. Smith. varey. howard. Jones. Lowther. Evens. Ward. Dale.maternal, side. miller cumbria, stewert. mitchell. allan. Ireland. donaghue, Kelly. Murphy. Young. Plus many others. .

Offline kdyangie

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Re: help with romany links
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 04 April 10 10:34 BST (UK) »
thnx rob

the names I have are james fisher(c1815) marrying a jean/jane fisher and know of 1 child euphemia paton(c1837).

I am so excited now, fingers crossed I can back up this story with fact.  I have always felt a pride to have a romany connection :)

angie
mackie, dow, speed, Paton, fisher, cheney, shivers (scotland)

Offline Ceeoh

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Re: help with romany links
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 04 April 10 13:38 BST (UK) »
Many thanks rob g

This great grandmother of mine has a very complicated story, she could have been born Smith or Burnside - (1831 - 1839) no record of a likely Smith but there is a likely *Mary Burnside.
She may have "married" a Bradley and had a son Joseph - no sign of a marriage, or of the family after the 1861 census
No sign of a likely Mary Smith on census 1841 to 1861
First child with my g-grandfather(Grout)  1863 mother registered as Mary Groath Smith, formerly Smith (Does this give the impression she was born Smith and married a Smith?  The child's name was Grout.
First child baptised - mother Mary Smith a single woman
1871 with the family is son Joseph Smith age 14 no record of his birth (was he Joseph Bradley?)
1869 (after the birth of three children) marries my grandfather as Mary Smith single woman father John Smith (not entered as deceased.)  Witnesses at the marriage *Ambrose and Isabella Burnside.

As a family they were pretty constant in the Guisborough/Brotton area, apart from going to Belmont (Durham) to get married then returning to Brotton.


Does this make any sense?

Thanks for your reply to my query
Ceeoh

Offline stroudie

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Re: help with romany links
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 04 April 10 18:16 BST (UK) »
Hello

I hope you don't mind me chipping in. I am descended from the same family as Ceeoh and I just wanted to ask you about marriage. When you say they were strict about marriage, do you mean a legally recognised marriage in church, or would there be Romany alternatives that were considered equally valid and might this explain why we can't find a marriage record for Mary Burnside or James Bradley?

Many thanks
Julie

Offline kathbn

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Re: help with romany links
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 24 April 10 23:47 BST (UK) »
hi Steve wonder if you could help with Gentle family cant find my g grandparents in 1881 census i know that my grandfather was boarded out with Seabridge age 9 in stone staffs his parents were William Gentle born ox banbury 1836 married Mary Ann brion akabrian born KETERING 1840 WHY would they leave thier children also cant find his sibligs John Ben George and arthur any help would be appreciated many thanks Kath email (*)

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