Completed- identity/analysis please - natal police and rifle association 1912

[2Harriet]

Hi,
I've been hoping my relative Robert Irving Johnston b 1881 Carlisle, is one of these perhaps he is the chap who is in both photos. I also have 2 postcards from him dated 1906 and 1911 from Natal, Pietermaritzburg.He does not appear on 1911 census for England.
How can i find out the names of those in the photos please. Any background to these chaps would be interesting as i'm clueless about history.
 The trophy says "Natal Rifle Association Nongqai Trophy, presented by the R---- Police 1912"
 The uniforms have NP on the shoulder.

Thanks for looking,
June

[Mole]

I've recently written about the Natal Police (NP), a unit previously known as the Natal Mounted Police, in my blog at http://molegenealogy.blogspot.com/search?q=natal+police
There are a couple of links included on that page which may be of interest.
The pic (uniformed group) would be a bisley group of NP, and as indicated by the date 1912 on the cup the photo would have been taken quite late in the NP's career - they ceased to exist in 1913.
It would be very difficult to identify the men in these photos, unless by some miracle the same pictures were preserved in, say, Pietermaritzburg Archives Repository, with all the names given. A photo of a 'special' group made up of members of a unit (NP in this case) to perform some specific function would be unlikely to be preserved other than by the people who appear in the photo.
You may already know there is a deceased estate file for your Robert Irving Johnston held in Pietermaritzburg:
DEPOT     NAB                                                                 
SOURCE    MSCE                                                                 
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 0                                                                     
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 20273/1933                                                           
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          JOHNSTON, ROBERT IRVING. (S/S MARGARET ALICE; BORN BARNES).           
STARTING  1933                                                                 
ENDING    1934

There are service records of NP - see my blog for more info.

Re 'Nongqai': they were the Zululand Native Police established in 1883 as a bodyguard to Sir Melmoth Osborn, Resident Commissioner of Zululand. This respected force was known as the Nongqai; their fort at Eshowe is now a museum. The Trophy mentioned would have been named in their honour.
Mole

[2Harriet]

Hello Mole,
Thankyou so much, this is very interesting.
It is looking very likely then that my Robert Irving Johnston is the relative in the pctures. I did not know  about the deceased estate file (what does it mean?)but it confirms I think this is same R I Johnston as I have his date of death as  27/11/1933 recorded on a family headstone in Carlisle cemetery. Do you agree? Does this mean he died in Peitermaritzburg ? as I have no death record coming up on ancestry site . Do you know how I could find out more please?

You have helped me with a brick wall re this chap and his wife. She is known on the postcards as Daisy and I have her surname as Barnes which could have been a transcript/ spelling error. I am assuming the  (S/S MARGARET ALICE; BORN BARNES). is his "surviving spouse" and I will need to do some researching re  re M A Barnes, I have been unable to find a marriage for them re Daisy Baines. I wonder if they married in Natal.

I am off to look up your blog now...I very much appreciate your time and effort on my behalf, thanks again,
June

[Mole]

In all likelihood, given the date of your Robert's death, the deceased estate file opened in 1933 would be that of the same Robert Irving Johnston. It does not necessarily mean that he died in Pietermaritzburg - he may have died elsewhere in Natal. NAB as seen on the reference to the deceased estate indicates the file is held in Pietermaritzburg Archives Repository. MSCE = Master of Supreme Court Estates. The file number and date are shown, and the description as you guessed includes mention of his surviving spouse. Daisy is found sometimes as a less usual 'nickname' for Margaret - via the similar forename Marguerite, a type of daisy. The more usual pet name for Margaret is Peggy. Still I don't think there's any confusion about Margaret Barnes being the spouse of your Robert.
You could contact Pietermaritzburg Archives Repository or alternatively hire a local professional to access the file and send you digital copies of the Death Notice and other contents e.g. Will. Lists of researchers and other contact details are given on the National Archives & Records site at www.national.archives.gov.za/  It is advisable to send any researcher the full file reference as given in my previous response to your query.

Finding a marriage in Natal would be difficult without a narrow date parameter or a parish or denomination.
If you're new to SA research, deceased estates files etc, have a look at the Beginners Guide at www.genealogyworld.net
Mole
www.molegenealogy.blogspot.com/

[2Harriet]

Hi,
I'm over the moon. I have contacted the eGGSA site and they are going to photograph the estate file of Robert I Johnston for me so I will get clear what his wife's name is etc . I have confirmation that although his name appears on headstone at Carlisle he is not buried there. Can't thank you enough for pointing me in the right direction.
Regards,
June

[JOHN IRVING]

Hi June

I am one of ROBERT IRVING JOHNSTON'S grandsons , he emigrated to SA early 1903 , married MARGARET BAINES ( nicknamed DAISY) , and had 4 children, Noreen, DOUGLAS FRANCIS IRVING( my father), Elaine and Desmond, all in PIETERMARITZBURG,;and Robert initially was from Carlisle where he was a policeman with Scotland Yard, so joined the NATAL COLONIAL POLICE.He was a crack shottist with the rifle.
I am one of 4 , and presently living in the UK ,as is my eldest brother so we must meet up cousin !!!

I hope to hear from you soon

JOHN IRVING JOHNSTON
07552200955( UK MOBILE)

[patSA]

Hello June

The person in your photo's is my grandfather : Robert Irving Johnston.My mom was Elaine Irving Johnston born in Pietermaritzburg Natal in 1916.My gran was Margaret Alice Baines (Johnston) -- we all called her Granny Daisy.
I see my cousin John has also contacted you -- do contact us when you have time so that we can learn more about my grandad whom John has beentrying to trace for many years.We just came up with nothing --- your photo did the trick
There are quite a few of your relations here in SA
Patricia

[JOHN IRVING]

Hi Pat

I am so pleased you spotted this on ROOTSCHAT.COM !!!

Hopefully I can link up with June our second cousin soon !!


Regards

JOHN

[babs2]

Hi June !  & Hello John and Pat

John thanks so much for your email about your grandfather through Genes Reunited !

I havent been doing  much ancestor hunting recently but this has renewed my interest !

So just to let you all know that I also have some photos and postcards relating to Robert Irving Johston. they include:

-photograph of Daisy Baines1890s

-photo of three of Robert and Daisy's children as babys/ toddlers 1900s

-photo of Daisy and one of her children as baby 1900s

-2 postcards Robert sent to his sister Kate ( great aunt Katy )in 1905  - both pictures of the barracks in Natal

-postcard he sent to Harriet  of Natal Police being inspect ed by the P of Wales ( Edward v111) in London ( cant make out the date )
(says at the bottom of t he card Colonial CoronationContingents Camp Duke of Yorks School London)

-also a photo  of some sort of  humorous farewell address to a colleague/ boss in the Natal Police handwritten and illustrated with little cartoons and signed by Robert and 8 others


Regards to all

Barbara ( Junes cousin !)