Author Topic: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area  (Read 17101 times)

Offline Lizzie F

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #9 on: Friday 12 August 11 22:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Martyn and John.

I am also related to the HANDLEYS of Aberedw!

My maternal 2x great grandfather was George HANDLEY b 1806 in Lyonshall, Herefordshire. His parents were Peter HANDLEY (Miller), b 1766 in Knill, and Mary nee GRIFFITHS. They were married in 1804 in Pembridge and lived at Bullock's Mill, Lyonshall. Peter was the son of Peter HANDLEY & Rebecca nee GUY and the brother of Samuel HANDLEY who married Ann FERRER and Catherine (can't remember her surname!). George's siblings were Francis, Thomas, John, Richard Guy, Rebecca and Mary. I believe Rebecca and Mary died young, Thomas married, Richard Guy also moved to Birmingham and went into business with George as Millstone Makers & Importers of French Burrs. I have also found a Francis in Birmingham so maybe he moved also.

I am related to Allison HANDLEY and Gwlythin ROWCROFT who's great grandmother was Rebecca LEWIS nee HANDLEY who appears on the censuses between 1871 and 1901 at Talgarth Mill, Breconshire.

In the 1841 census George was living at Velindre near Brecon with his wife Elizabeth nee ALLEN, and their young son William. Also living there was Catherine FIREES (FERRIES) age 15, a servant (daughter of Moses FERRIES and Catherine nee JENKINS who lived at Clyro and Bronydd). She became my 2x great grandmother!!! Catherine FERRIES nee JENKINS was mentioned in Kilvert's Diary and was the grandmother of George LANSBURY MP, leader of the Labour party in 1931/32 !!

In the 1851 census, 45 year old George, a Miller, described himself as a Widower and was living in Castle Street, Birmingham with 25 year old Catherine FERRIES his housekeeper!!! They went on to have 3 daughters, the eldest of whom was my great grandmother Mary Ann HANDLEY b 1854.The rest, as they say, is history!

During the course of my research I have recently found out that George and his younger brother John appeared before Hereford City Court on 15th July 1837 as insolvent debtors who had gone out of business! Apparently he had businesses in Clyro, Pembridge and Merthyr Tydfil! They are described as prisoners but I don't know if they were sent to a debtor's prison!
Also. last night I found out that Samuel HANDLEY appeared before a grand jury in 1811, indicted for assault and torn document against a blacksmith and he was indicted with the same thing against Samuel! The verdict was No True Bill (the jury felt there was not enough evidence for the case to proceed). It's all very interesting and amazing, considering a few years I knew next to nothing about George. He died in 1874 in Stepney, London age 68 of Bronchitis and Dropsy (Bright's Disease).

How are you both related to Samuel? Do you know when he died? As he doesn't appear on the 1841 census and Catherine describes herself as a widow.

Hope you find this informative and interesting. Hope to hear from you soon!

Best wishes

Lizzie x

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Offline JohnCH

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 13 August 11 22:30 BST (UK) »
Hi Lizzie.

Thank you for your most interesting and comprehensive reply to my investigation. I have just returned from a week away on holiday so need to collect my thoughts somewhat! I'll send a proper reply when I have had a chance to consult my history of the Handleys. All I can say for the moment is that we are certainly related, although the Aberedw branch and the Herefordshire branch seem to have divided in about 1756 (off the top of my head). I'm particularly interested to find out more and to pass on any of my findings to you that are of interest. My branch has remained in Herefordshire to this day - it's where I live. All good wishes, JohnCH.

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Offline Lizzie F

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #11 on: Monday 15 August 11 16:56 BST (UK) »
Hi John

Thanks for your prompt reply! That's great to know we are related and that you live in Hereford too!

I was born and brought up in Birmingham, but moved with my ex fiance to Hereford in 1990. In May 2009 I left my job to move in with my mum in Birmingham to care for her as she has Progressive Supranuclear Palsy (P.S.P.). I go home to Hereford once a month for a week's respite.

I've been researching my family history for 32 years now. It's amazing what records are available nowadays. I wrote to several Handleys in Herefordshire in the 1990s to see if we were related, but unfortunately some people did not reply and those who did said there was no connection - probably because at the time my knowledge of the Handley family tree was minimal, therefore could only give my side of the story as it were!

I'm really looking forward to hearing from you in more detail. I was in contact with Alison Handley who used to be a reporter for The Birmingham Evening Mail and she sent me a tree dating back to the 1680s which I could link into mine. I think her line comes from Samuel Handley b 1756 and his second wife Catherine.

There was an interesting programme on BBC1 last Wednesday at 8pm - Village S.O.S. It came from Talgarth and was about the restoration of the Water Mill there, owned and run from 1871 by another Handley - Rebecca b1829 & her husband George Lewis. When she died their grandson George Lewis ran it (1911 census)! It closed in 1946, but not sure if it was still in the family then, but I know a man who might know!  Don't know if you saw it, probably not as you were on your jolly hols! You could always watch it on iplayer.

Anyway I will say goodbye for now, speak to you soon.

Best wishes

Lizzie

Offline Martyn H

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 16 August 11 11:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Lizzie
My father did a lot of research about 20 years ago, and liaised with Alison , so you may have the following.
As you may have noted my father was born in Maesmynis Mill.
Unfortunately his father died when he was young and the whole significant enterprise was wound up.
we have records showing Peter H , and Lames H in Knill 1766/8
and we believe we have proved links back to John H in Cradley 1685 a farmer, all following are millers.in Burrington Circa 1692-1725
John  Bodenham in 1745,
Peter in Wellington in 1755
William in Kinnersley 1762
William in Kingsland 1764
then Knill.
The church yard in Aberedw is full of Handleys including my grand father .
I have a lot more info
it is a question of how to send info.
I saw that program on BBc as well and wondered if there was a connection, but did not realise a Handley had been there.
Regards   Martyn

Offline JohnCH

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 16 August 11 21:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Lizzie (and Martyn).

Thank you for your reply. You always manage to include interesting information that is new to me! I particularly like the little personal facts that help bring these characters to life.

I suspect that Handleys originated as inhabitants of les Andelys region in France and it is quite possible that they made their way to England within the army of William I in 1066 after which they were rewarded by him for their support with lands and priveleges.

My full detailed history starts with Richard Handley who was born between 1637 and 1663, probably in the hamlet of Burrington, in NW Herefordshire on the English side of its border with Wales. He married Mary from Cradley in 1683 and produced many children.

I think that, if possible (and you agree) we should try to meet up, at your convenience, to compare notes when you are in Hereford, as I have so much material that it is impossible to meaningfully present it on here!

Best wishes. JohnCH.

Offline Martyn H

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 17 August 11 16:06 BST (UK) »
Hi JohnCh & Lizzie

It would be nice to meet up some time and compare notes..

There seem to have been many more Hanley/Handley Miller related branches, almost a Dynasty.   It would be interresting to expand my family tree.

From here in north Cambridgeshire i am aware there is a family of Handleys from Sleaford/ Newark that we do not know if we are related.   Not Millers more bankers!

I have heard of Andely in northern France, did not know whether to believe it was our source!.

 I assume you have heard of Hanley Castle, Worcester, I doubt we gave it its name but we could have come from a peasant later known as John(etc) of Hanley!

It would be good if Lizzie could put me in touch with Allison as I have not been able to tell her my father died.

Martyn H

Offline Lizzie F

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 18 August 11 00:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Martyn

Yes I have just read about the Andely connection, other experts disagree and reckon it's origin is Anglo Saxon meaning High Wood or Meadow. I've heard of Hanley Castle and Hanley Swan near Droitwich. Don't know if that spelling is a corruption of ours or vice versa!There is also Hanley in Staffs. Apparently the name Handley is most common in Cheshire, Derbyshire, Northants and Hampshire!

I live in Birmingham at the moment but my home is in Hereford and only go back there once a month on respite breaks. John has suggested meeting up as he also lives in Hereford. I'm next there from 9th - 16th September. It would be great for us all to meet! The Handleys sound like a very prolific family and a lot of the men seem to have been married more than once!!! If my 2x great grandfather and his servant (my 2x great grandmother-to-be) hadn't moved to Birmingham then I would have been born in Hereford or in Wales!
Unfortunately I haven't got Allison's address on me it's at home, although I believe she got married so has probably moved since I last heard from her. She's probably listed on 192.com or 123.com. I can't even remember the area of the country that she lived in! How are you related to Allison Martyn? Are you on the Samuel & Catherine line? I know the family tree she sent to me she mentioned the village of Burrington, Richard & Mary c1699, (I haven't got anything further back than that), Theophilus & Evan Handley - Evan, son of Catherine and the late Samuel, was living at Lower Mill, Aberedw on the 1841 census with his brother Samuel and sister Rebecca. On the 1851 census 19 year old Rebecca was a servant in the household of the Gamekeeper of Moccas Court!  She married George Lewis in 1855 in Crickhowell and in 1861 they were living in the Mill House, Glanusk, Llanfrynach. Then between 1871 and 1911 and possibly later the family lived at Talgarth Mill! I am in contact with the husband of one of her Great grand daughters!!!

So at a guess it sounds like you, Allison and Gwlythin are all from the same line. As yet I don't know which line John is from.  My 3x great grandfather Peter Handley was Samuel's brother so our common ancestor I guess would be my 4x great grandparents Peter and Rebecca Handley nee Guy ???

I'm sorry if you already know most of this or I've repeated myself, I can't remember who I've told what!   

Take care and speak to you soon

Best wishes

Lizzie

Offline Lizzie F

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 18 August 11 01:00 BST (UK) »
Hi John

Yes I would love to meet up but it would help if I had your email address and you had mine. There is no secure way to do that though on here is there? On other chat forums I've been on there is the facility for you to contact someone privately and pass on your email address. I live in the north part of Hereford City, 10 minutes walk from the Railway station and will be back there on 9th September for a week. Whereabouts in Herefordshire do you live?

I was just looking at a website explaining about the Handley name and discovered
that a John Handley age 30, a Millwright sailed to America in 1842 ! He's roughly abt the same age as George's younger brother John who went out of business - so if this was the same man maybe he thought he'd do better across the pond!
Also the other night I typed 'Francis Handley' into Google and a Francis Handley, age 33 (abt the same age as George's elder brother Francis) pleaded guilty to embezzlement in 1839 and transported for 7 years - to Australia I guess!

I think I'd better stop digging, things are getting worse not better haha.

Do you have any photographs? The only photo I have is of my great grandmother Mary Ann Handley, born 1854, taken around 1900, with her surviving children - two sets of twins - Francis (my granddad) & Austin born 1882 and Anne & Eleanor born 1888. Her three other children - Bernard, Ernest and Elizabeth died young.

I agree it is difficult to put certain info on here, I prefer to see it in person anyway! My stuff will probably look pretty puny next to yours!  Are you in touch with Norman Rowcroft? He told me about Talgarth Mill and Rebecca Handley.

Anyway I'd better go to bed. Hopefully speak to you again soon

Best wishes

Lizzie


Offline Martyn H

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Re: Handleys working the watermills Aberedw area
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 18 August 11 09:50 BST (UK) »
Hi John & Lizzie
Sounds interesting

There is something in Rootschat called Personal Message.

Am going to try and fathom it out!   May solve contact issues.

Regards

Martyn