Author Topic: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In  (Read 16021 times)

Offline mosher

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 11:07 BST (UK) »
Crikey xin, do you know where we are?  And what do we do now, go out and yell "James, where the bloody hell are ya?"   ;D

Mosher

Offline Lady Di

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 11:53 BST (UK) »
OK - first question

Mosher, have you checked the newspapers in Australia for any reference to a James Murphy?
(I found the death of one of mine (unregistered) via the newspaper. He was buried on his property out west in 1855)

Anyway, back to the subject, Are you sure that the three "marriages" (or supposed marriage) for Catherine are all for the same lady? When she married John Walters, did she say that she was a widow? Maiden name? Parents names?

If I recall correctly, the birth certs for James & Catherine's children would only be the baptism records so I guess there's not much information shown there. ::)

Have you had a look at any Land records to see if James Murphy was granted land out Lachlan way in abt 1850. That's just the right time for a lot of land releases and squatters heading west.

Because their son Michael was born/Bp at Lachlan (and Forbes wasn't even started at that time), one assumes that they probably went west as squatters or followed the Gold Rush to the Forbes area.

Have you been in touch with the Forbes Family History Group. They have more information than any group I've ever seen about the settlers and the gold rush? They are also just starting to investigate any convicts who are buried in their area - whether their death is registered of not.

Have you tried to find out what happened to the James Murphy x 2 who came as convicts (Via Lonach) James Murphy does sound rather like an Irish name (assumption - sorry).

Does it show anywhere an occupation for James?

Sorry for all the questions but if you've already tried these avenues, then we can start to look elsewhere.

Di


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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 12:03 BST (UK) »

 Catherine marries again to John Walters in 1853 and had a further 3 children Elizabeth, Joseph & Susannah.



Where did Catherine marry John Walters?

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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 12:10 BST (UK) »
How old was Catherine when she arrived with her mother Mary in 1817?

Where and when were Elizabeth, Joseph & Susannah Walters born?





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Offline mosher

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 12:33 BST (UK) »
Ok, (thanks lady Di!!):

I have gone back and rechecked and I can't find a marriage for Catherine & John Walters either.  The bloomin floozy, why couldn't she make it easy for me?

The last Murphy boy was born 1853 in Cowra, and the first Walter child (Elizabeth) was also born in Cowra on 12 Jan 1855.  So I presume she met John Walters in Cowra.

Joseph Walters was born 1858 in Binalong, and Susannah I also have born 1858 in Binalong.  There was a lot of twins in the family (inc my grandad), so very likely they were also.

It is not really known (I don't think) how old Catherine was when she arrived but she is listed on her death "card" as being 63 when she died in 1877.  This would have her year of birth as 1814, so possibly 3 when she arrived.

I will go back and read your long post now to check other info!

Mosher

Offline mosher

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 12:51 BST (UK) »
OK - first question

Mosher, have you checked the newspapers in Australia for any reference to a James Murphy?
(I found the death of one of mine (unregistered) via the newspaper. He was buried on his property out west in 1855)

Yes, I have looked but there are heaps of news articles (good and bad!) about James Murphys.   If they were living in Cowra, what newspaper would a death notice be in?  To be honest, I don't know that they were very flush, so doubt they would have put a notice in.

Quote
Anyway, back to the subject, Are you sure that the three "marriages" (or supposed marriage) for Catherine are all for the same lady? When she married John Walters, did she say that she was a widow? Maiden name? Parents names?

I had been in contact with a researcher who assured me she had absolute proof that this was the same lady but then refused to give me any further info as I think she was going to write a book or something.  I am not that sure that the Murphy family are that (in)famous but they were an early family in the Omeo district and raised a bit of a ruckus there.   ;D

Other family that I have run into on the net all have the same details so I am going to say that I THINK she is the same lady.

Quote
Have you had a look at any Land records to see if James Murphy was granted land out Lachlan way in abt 1850. That's just the right time for a lot of land releases and squatters heading west.

Because their son Michael was born/Bp at Lachlan (and Forbes wasn't even started at that time), one assumes that they probably went west as squatters or followed the Gold Rush to the Forbes area.

Have you been in touch with the Forbes Family History Group. They have more information than any group I've ever seen about the settlers and the gold rush? They are also just starting to investigate any convicts who are buried in their area - whether their death is registered of not.

well, now we're cooking with gas!  I haven't heard of the Forbes Family History Group!  In fact i don't even know where Forbes is... but will google and find it. 

How do I find land records?  I know John Murphy had land in Benambra (Omeo Plains) but don't know if James had any.  It gets confusing as there is a Miles Murphy who was an early settler in Binalong, so any searches bring up heaps on him.  I did wonder if Miles & James were related but haven't found anything.

Quote
Have you tried to find out what happened to the James Murphy x 2 who came as convicts (Via Lonach) James Murphy does sound rather like an Irish name (assumption - sorry).

One of them is listed as marrying someone else, so that counts one of them out.  The other I can see having a ToL & CoF but nothing further.  Not to say it's not there, just haven't found anything.  He is the one I prefer as he sounds a bit more dishy (the other had a missing front tooth!)   

Quote
Does it show anywhere an occupation for James?

The one with Catherine is usually listed as a shepherd.  But I think that counts for most farm workers back then.  The one from the Lonach (more dishy one) is listed on CoF as Labourer.

Will keep looking!


Thanks again!



Offline Lady Di

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 12:54 BST (UK) »
I cant see an Elizabeth being born in 1855 in Cowra - any surname  ???

The registration numbers for Joseph Water/Walter (parents John & Catherine) is 5150/5151

The registration number for Susannah WALTERS (parents John & Catherine) is 5159

There are 8 children's births registered between Joheph & Susannah which makes me think that they are not twins and even possibly not siblings - unless you have other proof.

What makes you think that Catherine actually hooked up with John Walters?

OOps -

Sorry - haven't read your post yet - but will post this first then read yours

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Offline Lady Di

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 13:05 BST (UK) »
Quote
Anyway, back to the subject, Are you sure that the three "marriages" (or supposed marriage) for Catherine are all for the same lady? When she married John Walters, did she say that she was a widow? Maiden name? Parents names?

I had been in contact with a researcher who assured me she had absolute proof that this was the same lady but then refused to give me any further info as I think she was going to write a book or something.  I am not that sure that the Murphy family are that (in)famous but they were an early family in the Omeo district and raised a bit of a ruckus there.   ;D

Other family that I have run into on the net all have the same details so I am going to say that I THINK she is the same lady.


My suggestion is that you prove your line and pretend that you've never heard about any other researcher. It has been known for one person to "assume" then everyone copies that information, again "assuming" that it was correct.

Consequence - a lot of family trees are based on fiction and assumptions.

Now - back to dear ole James......

I've found death notices in lots of the newspapers but mainly the Sydney Morning Herald - even for people who were poor as church mice.

Suggest you go through the newspapers and document EVERY reference to any James Murphy in the 1850-1060 era. Note those who are in the west or Bringelly.

If we can find a sighting of your James after 1853, then the Catherine/Walters marriage may have nothing to do with you.

I'll be back later

Di




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Offline mosher

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Re: Moshers Scavenger Hunt...Everyone Welcome To Join In
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 05 May 10 13:21 BST (UK) »
I have found where I got John Walters & Catherine marrying - a researcher had posted this info asking for anyone who knew anything on them:

WALTERS, JOHN. Lampton Park, Lachlan River married and CATHARINE
MURPHY of Lachlan River 5 Oct 1853 at Cowra, N.S.W

Children:

Elizabeth b. 12 January 1855, baptised 17 May 1855 by B. Murphy
(Father's name: John WALTERS, mother's name Catherine KELAHER )

Joseph b. 16 Apr 1858, Currawang Creek, father John WATER, age 42,
mother CATHERINE, age 42, formerly SHEAHAN (married 1853 Cowra).
Previous Issue Elizabeth 4.

Death of Joseph 15 July 1859, Moppity Station near Binalong, age 16
months. Father John WALTERS, mother Catherine, formerly KENEHAN late
MURPHY.

The "late" Murphy would confirm they think James is dead.

I haven't got the funds to confirm all of these certificates so have had to trust what I find, if I think it trustworthy.  ( ???)  Some info I have found I have disregarded as it has not gelled with what else I have.

More coming...