IgorStrav/Royd Joint Scavenger Hunt... Everyone Welcome To Join In

[deb usa]

R

All I can think is that they have been transcribed under another surname.  

It's really cra**y when you are relying on the 1851 for important info. I know the feeling.  

Have they ever been transcribed as living in caravans/tents etc? Or were they always home dwellers?

deb

oo red post ...

if Daniel was bc 1840 something there has to be a birth reg. Maybe if they were travelling he may have been registered in another area.

[IgorStrav]

Deb, we have them in the 1861 onwards, and they are always in houses from then on.

However, Jane Cooley (Richard snr's "wife") was described as a traveller on her daughter Sarah Cooley's baptism record in Seal, and we have various members of the family marrying into travelling families (for example Peter Louder is a marine stores dealer, and Jane Corke married into the Hedges family, and her father in law was a chair bottomer).

And the various birthplaces of the children - Sarah in Seal, Richard in Cudham,Jane in Ightham, (Daniel in Chelsea? Chelsham?), James in Reigate, Stephen in Wisley seem to indicate travelling.  From 1853 on, I think the family were in Seal, Kent, as that is where the other children are baptised.

But they don't seem to be there in the 1851, which is not surprising as they were in Wisley/Pyrford on 23rd February that year, and Seal is 40 miles away and they only had a month to do it in.  Possible, I suppose, but I have been through the Seal census before.......

[robbo43]

A few, probably irrelevant, thoughts on hop-picking if you think they were involved in this.  A lot of itinerant workers followed a fairy definite schedule moving around.  First job in the year in spring would be training hops onto the strings.  Then they could move almost anywhere, then back to Kent for cherry/apple/strawberry/blackcurrant etc picking in summer, hop picking in September and then on to potato picking in autumn/winter.  They would follow a fairly regular circuit, going back to the same area, often the same farm, for a particular job year after year.  So is their a pattern as to where people are at a particular time of year?

Robert

[IgorStrav]

Thank you for your comments, Robbo, I will have a look at the seasons of the various births and see if any of that makes sense.

Given that we want the 1851 census as a first step, we know the family were definitely in Pyrford on 23rd February.  So I am assuming that this would be just ahead of training the hops on to the strings, and therefore the likelihood is that they would be back on the way to Kent.

I am seriously thinking of drawing circles on the map and assessing how far the family would have got in 5 weeks, probably, as you suggest, moving Kentwards.

What do you think they would be living/travelling in?  Family of two adults, girl of 14, boy of 10, girl of 8, boy of 5, boy of 3, newborn baby?  I hadn't been imagining a Romany caravan because of of course they weren't Romany.

Any thoughts, anyone? 

[IgorStrav]

Following up Robbo's suggestion, I've had another look at the births and I don't know that it does actually assist in terms of a routine of travelling - see what you think

The children are baptised/presumably born as follows (leaving out Daniel, for whom we have no baptism/birth records confirmed as yet)

Sarah, baptism April 16th 1837, Seal, Kent
Richard, baptism Feb 16th 1840, Cudham, Kent
Jane, baptism Dec 11th 1842, Ightham, Kent
James, baptism Mar 19th, Reigate, Surrey
Stephen, baptism Feb 23rd, Pyrford, Surrey

then
Eliza, baptism Dec 11th 1853, Seal, Kent
Alice, baptism Oct 12th 1856, Seal, Kent
Elizabeth, no baptism found, but birth March qtr 1859
Mary Ann, baptism Feb 16th 1862, Seal, Kent

So, with the exception of Alice, all the children are baptised/presumably born in the period December to April.

It looks like the family were based in and around Kent for the first few years, and then in Surrey, and finally back to Kent.

I don't know if anyone can deduce anything else from this?

[deb usa]

hi all

I looked again this morning (for a long long time and still cannot see them...Daniel certainly fits in between Sarah and Stephen's birth.

does anyone have Family search...eeekkk it's family something ...I think thats what it's called as I (well , actually not me, my cousin)  have found various family members that are transcribed there but not on Ancestry.

I will try to ask my cousin to take a look...

deb

[Tephra]

It's time for this weeks Scavenger Hunt and here it is.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,458145.0.html

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Barbara


As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.

[Daisy Loo]

Royd... Re: Daniel

The marriage to Olive in 1870...I'm assuming that you have the cert?  and he lists his father as Richard Corke?
What was the occupation of Richard?

Just to clarify another point, Richard Senior, b.1812 in Stone...you are hoping to prove that he is Daniel's father, right?

I am intrigued by this family, mainly because I grew up in Dartford, and many of these place names like Eynesford, Shorham etc are very familier to me!  I don't know how much help I will be, if any...but I am kind of starting from the beginning...working back from the 1901 census...you never know, a pair of fresh eyes and all that!

[royd]

Hi Daisy Loo, you are more than welcome to join in this hunt - fresh eyes are what we are always hoping for.

Okay, yes, I have Daniel's marriage certificate:  11th June, 1870 at Zion chapel, Brewer Street, Maidstone.  He was  a labourer and his father Richard Cork, was down as a Farm labourer.  At the time of the marriage, his residence was Offham, Kent whilst Olive's was 21 Bownys (?) Court, King Street, Maidstone.  Her father James, was also a Farm labourer.  Daniel has signed with his mark X.  Olive was able to write.  The witnesses were Thomas South (no idea as yet about him but may pursue) and Alice Martin who, I think, was Olive's sister.

It is hoped to prove that Daniel was Richard's son and brother to Richard jnr.   I have seen Richard senior's baptism at Stone on Medway City Ark.   Maybe it is time I trawled through all the parishes listed on there to see if there is a baptism for Daniel!!   

Many thanks. R