Helen Fretwell b 1821 Nottinghamshire

[avm228]

Weird about the reference to Upton Vicarage but it might become clear in time!

This may be a red herring but here's a document linking one Alice FRETWELL to a place called Upton (this time in Worcs):

http://tinyurl.com/38eecwl

[Crunwere]

Well the one that refers to Robert Rowell Fretwell ties it all in - but weird that we have possible parents
William & Helen,
William & Ellen - and then
William & Sarah - which would look right if not for fact other docs refer to Helen!!

So seems Helen and WIlliam win!!

Anyhow will put this info into tree and see how the rest fo the family fit in.

Odd about the other Upton reference in Worcs - seems there were loads of Fretwells!!

[Dazey999]

The Gentleman's Magazine 1805 - Marriages
At Mablethorpe, Co. Lincoln, Wm Fretwell Esq of BECKINGHAM, Co. Nottingham, to the only daughter and heiress of Samuel Rowell Esq, of Mablethorpe

[Dazey999]

Samuel Rowell died 25 Novr. 1825. Will of Samuel Rowell late of Mablethorpe now of Bilsbv. Close of pasture in Hogsthorpe to daughter Helen Fretwell for life then to grandson Robert Rowell Fretwell ; messuages, lands etc. in Thorpe and

[Crunwere]

we now have 2 Helen Fretwell's (mother & daughter)..what about this snippet - again from Lincolnshire Notes & Queries on Google Books..

Close of pasture in Hogsthorpe to daughter Helen Fretwell for life then to grandson Robert Rowell Fretwell ;

Now if we have it right William and Helen Fretwell had Helen who married James Startin (they had no children), James's sister Sarah Startin married Robert Rowell Fretwell - so that isn't quite right either, as he'd be senior Helen's son, not grandson - unless there was another generation of Helen Fretwell - or should I go and make a cuppa??

Robert Rowell Fretwell also had a daughter Helen - but by then they'd changed the name to Frecheville!!

[Dazey999]

The cuppa was a good idea!!  I'm thinking that Helen Jnr was Robert Rowell Fretwell's sister...and Sarah was James Startin's sister....so 2 brothers married 2 sisters??

[avm228]

Well the one that refers to Robert Rowell Fretwell ties it all in - but weird that we have possible parents
William & Helen,
William & Ellen - and then
William & Sarah - which would look right if not for fact other docs refer to Helen!!

So seems Helen and WIlliam win!!

The names Helen and Ellen were used interchangeably at the time, so the only odd one out is Sarah.  This could just be an error either in the baptism register or in the IGI transcription of it - or it could mean that Helen had died and William had remarried to a Sarah who in turn was mother of Helen jnr.

The 1825 will of Samuel Rowell leaving property to his daughter Helen Fretwell for life makes the latter option much less likely - it seems William's wife Helen was alive and well long after the children's births and the name "Sarah" likely to be an error.

[avm228]

we now have 2 Helen Fretwell's (mother & daughter)..what about this snippet - again from Lincolnshire Notes & Queries on Google Books..

Close of pasture in Hogsthorpe to daughter Helen Fretwell for life then to grandson Robert Rowell Fretwell ;

Now if we have it right William and Helen Fretwell had Helen who married James Startin (they had no children), James's sister Sarah Startin married Robert Rowell Fretwell - so that isn't quite right either, as he'd be senior Helen's son, not grandson - unless there was another generation of Helen Fretwell - or should I go and make a cuppa??

It's right that Robert was Helen's son - and hence the grandson of the testator Samuel Rowell, hence the description of Robert as grandson in Samuel's will.

[Crunwere]

Yes that looks like it Dazey -and James and Sarah Startin's other sister Mary Amelia married Henry Charles Fretwell whose father was a Thomas Fretwell?

Also Robert Rowell Fretwell's son William Frecheville married Lizzie Helen Penney - the daughter of Sarah Elizabeth Startin who was the niece of James, Sarah and Mary Amelia from above!!