Spanish Wrecks on Aberdeenshire Coast

[Hanwell_A]

Dear All,
..... The Santa Catherina was NOT an Armada ship when it sank. It was gun-running to the Earl of Errol about ten years after the Armada when it foundered.
..... My family (on my Mother's side) also has the names Hawthorn, Cordiner, Philips, Stephen and Hawthorn in our ancestry. Our family also has the word of mouth tradition that the Cordiners, Philips' and Stephens were att survivors of the shipwreck of the Spanish ship, the Santa Catherina.
..... As they were gun-running to the Earl of Errol, the Earl's men did their best to help the survivors of the wreck, who then settled in the Boddam area. The tradition goes that the Spanish names were Anglicised (Scotticised?) so became names that were already known elsewhere. The Cordiners were said to have either come from Cordoba, or been known as "Cordobas" before the Anglicisation of the surname.
..... I wonder if the Spanish authorities might have any surviving crew or embarkation lists from 1598 (or so) or even a record of which port the Santa Catherina sailed from? I have no idea as to how to search for this.
..... There was also another ship which foundered near to Boddam. It was the San Miguel which was a Portuguese ship and it would be very easy for family traditions to become distorted and mix up the ships over the intervening 500 years. As far as I know, there isn't a St. Michael's Dub, but there is a St. Catherine's Dub, which would help memory and tradition to be maintained (or distorted).
..... If there are any Family Historians reading this, who are descended from the Cordiners, Hawthorns, Philips' or Stephens from the Boddam and Peterhead area of Aberdeenshire, Scotland, I would be most pleased to hear from them. We could perhaps exchange family trees.
..... Regards, Adrian Hanwell, Scarborough, Yorkshire.
I am the only person with this surname in my area telephone directory.
 

[Hanwell_A]

..... Oops! Correction.
 - - - -
The Santa Catherina foundered on the Aberdeenshire coast in about 1598 (as stated) but the Spanish Armada sailed in 1588 and not 1598. This error was caused by brain failure. Sorry.
..... Regards, Adrian.
 

[gypsyspirit]

Hi Adrian
I have the names Sellar, Stephen and Cordiner in the Bruce/King/Butters branch of my tree in Peterhead/Boddam.
The Stephen and Cordiner men were fishermen in Boddam, but the Peterhead men who were not seamen were shoemakers and leather workers.  I am working with a close DNA match to connect my family tree to hers which includes many Cordiner families. I understand the name Sellar derives from saddler.  In my main line, my 5th g grandmother Jean Sellar b. 1753 in Peterhead,  married Alexander Bruce b. 1751 Peterhead, a shoemaker.  The Bruce and King family included many seamen and also merchants with links to many countries.
I am also intrigued to find I have distant DNA matches that include people born in and in some cases still living in the Portugese mainland and Azores in their trees, in three cases the family remain in Portugal/Azores, in other cases they are emigrants to USA and Nova Scotia. There are 8 of these matches altogether and I was surprised by that. I am learning that a seaport like Peterhead attracts seafarers from all over, but this DNA connection may reflect the result of the inclusion of the Portugese and Spanish sailors in the gene pool of Peterhead and Boddam..
I am about 3/4 Scottish descent and live in Australia.  My 2x g grandfather Alexander Butters  emigrated to Australia from Peterhead in 1854, we believe he deserted from the Merchant Navy to go to the goldfields. My Ancestry ethnicity estimate has given me 6% Scandinavian and 2% Iberian Peninsular. I have Rh negative blood.  All this makes a connection to Spanish and Portugese seamen quite possible.
My family tree is still evolving on Ancestry
Harris/Wells Family Tree
cheers
Margaret Stebbing, Melbourne, Australia

[Hanwell_A]

Dear Margaret,
..... Thanks for your message. I have taken an Ancestry DNA test and seem to remember seeing the name Stebbing as one of my distant matches, but I have not got around to contacting any of those distant matches as yet. I will need to re-visit the website.
..... I tried to attach a couple of my family trees to this message, but the website will only accept  txt, rtf, jpg, jpeg, gif, pdf, mpg, png and ged attachments. I started my genealogy research long before any of these were available and put my first trees onto Lotus 123 version one, when it became available. I have updated the spreadsheets over the years and they are currently on Microsoft Excel spreadsheets, which are not on the list.
..... I do not know if these RootsChat.com messages are public or private, so I do not want to publicise my e-mail address, but I live in Scarborough, Yorkshire, England and I am the only person in this town with my surname. If you phone me, I will quickly give you my e-mail address and I can reply to you with the Hawthorn, Cordiner and other family trees attached if you message me using it.
..... Regards, Adrian Hanwell.
 

[hdw]

Once both of you have posted at least three times here, you can use the Personal Message (PM) facility to email each other privately.

Harry

[Hanwell_A]

Dear Harry,
..... Thank you for that information, it is good to know. This message will be my third posting.
Regards, Adrian.

[gypsyspirit]

Yes. thanks Harry. DNA analysis has revealed more questions than it answered for me. SO many DNA connections that are difficult to explain. I have matches with entirely Norwegian born people in the tree - I guess a family of sailors from North East Scotland have connections in many ports. THe stories of the Spanish Armada taking the long way home abound. is there any truth in that?

[hdw]

Everybody who tests their DNA finds that the results pose more questions than they answer. A lot of British men have Y DNA from Iberia, but we are told that there was immigration into Britain from Iberia thousands of years ago, at the end of the last ice age. DNA changes very slowly if at all, so many of us with ancestry going back thousands of years in Britain will still have DNA similar to modern Spanish and Portuguese men. It doesn't mean we had forebears who sailed with the Spanish Armada, it's older than that. My own Y DNA is supposed to be 11% Iberian, and I'm Scottish/Northern Irish/English for hundreds of years back with no foreign input.

But the testing agencies keep changing the goalposts. Originally I was 32% West and Central European and 5% Finland and North Siberia, then that disappeared and I became 33% Scandinavian and 11% Iberian. I wish they would explain how they arrive at these results.

Harry

[gypsyspirit]

There is also a story about the origins of the Scottish people that says they were never English, migrated from the Caucuses and the Mediterranean and Iberian Peninsula, the pIllars of Hercules (straits of Gilbralta) and Ireland to Scotland from there.  Now where is that message link?