A George McCann

[mackers]

It's been a while and I am hoping that with recent websites being updated and so forth I am trying once more to get any information on the search for both my Great grandfather George McCann from the Armagh area whose wifes first name was Mary and that had a son Edward McCann.

To renew the things I do know Edward married a Teresa Hamill also from Armagh in St Peter's R.C. church in Belfast in 1871. On the records I do have it stated they got permission to marry from the clergy in Drumcree Parish Church Portadown. But the question I need an answer to is as follows why would they need such permission? Would it be because of age or, could it been because one of them was of a different religion?

The reason I ask is because so far the only George McCann with a wife with a first name of Mary came from Kingarve around about the right time line was a Protestant. So I'm of the mind that Edward married Teresa who was R.C. had to get permission and changed religion. I also seen in the 1911 census that George was still alive aged 83 but it states he had 5 children during his marriage. I'm hoping one of them was the Edward I seek. I have tried the Irish Genealogy with no luck so I'm hoping someone can direct me in another direction.

With thanks for any updates.

Mack

[aghadowey]

The reason I ask is because so far the only George McCann with a wife with a first name of Mary came from Kingarve around about the right time line was a Protestant.
Certainly there are other McCann's in the early Drumcree register-
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632568#page/1/mode/1up
Unfortunately, nothing earlier seems to exist-
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0213&parish=Drumcree

So I'm of the mind that Edward married Teresa who was R.C. had to get permission and changed religion.
If Edward was not Catholic before his marriage then it would be worth checking for a baptism in St. Peter's shortly before the marriage (sometimes such an adult baptism took place on the same day as the wedding).

However, the number of years married (1911 census) does point to the marriage of George McCann & Mary Cooke being the correct one. Did son Edward, or any other children, died in Scotland? if so names of both parents might be listed on death certificate.

For reference-
George McCann (Church of Ireland) in 1901 & 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Breagh/Kingarve/1031099
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Breagh/Kingarve/301533

[mackers]

The reason I ask is because so far the only George McCann with a wife with a first name of Mary came from Kingarve around about the right time line was a Protestant.
Certainly there are other McCann's in the early Drumcree register-
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632568#page/1/mode/1up
Unfortunately, nothing earlier seems to exist-
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0213&parish=Drumcree

So I'm of the mind that Edward married Teresa who was R.C. had to get permission and changed religion.
If Edward was not Catholic before his marriage then it would be worth checking for a baptism in St. Peter's shortly before the marriage (sometimes such an adult baptism took place on the same day as the wedding).

However, the number of years married (1911 census) does point to the marriage of George McCann & Mary Cooke being the correct one. Did son Edward, or any other children, died in Scotland? if so names of both parents might be listed on death certificate.

For reference-
George McCann (Church of Ireland) in 1901 & 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Breagh/Kingarve/1031099
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Breagh/Kingarve/301533

hi once again I am in your debt many thanks. As for Edward he died in Belfast Feb 1897. My problem is that his wife's age when she died in 1926 is 10 years younger than she actually was. As was her sons age my grandfather when he died in the 30s it was also about 10 years younger, it states he was 45 when in fact he was 54? So I'm kind of hoping Edward's age is right at his death it being 52. To make matters worse my grandmothers age was way out too. I am just baffled at the difference in their ages?

But I will try the baptism route thanks for the suggestion.

If I could ask you would you know of how pension records might be accessible anywhere? All the best and regards.

Mack

[aghadowey]

Old Age pension introduced 1908 with age 70+ so there won't be any pension record for Edward.
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/home.jsp

Have you compared wife's age in 1901 & 1911 to age on death certificate? introduction of pension often meant that there's more than 10 years difference between 1901 and 1911.

[mackers]

Old Age pension introduced 1908 with age 70+ so there won't be any pension record for Edward.
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/search/cs/home.jsp

Have you compared wife's age in 1901 & 1911 to age on death certificate? introduction of pension often meant that there's more than 10 years difference between 1901 and 1911.

Thanks yes and I have found nothing strange there. She died in 1926 age on death cert 66 she was in fact 78. That's about the long and the short of it. The funny part of this is that my grandmother who I lived with for sometime died in the early sixties and her cert stated she was 68 when in fact she was 75. I thought the whole idea about the pension situation was to make yourself older, not younger to get it? But there you are. Thank you very much for your imput.

Mack

[aghadowey]

Sometimes women subtracted a few years from their age if they wanted to appear younger than their husband. In other countries (such as England, Wales, Scotland, Canada, U.S.) where the census records are complete you can sometimes see a woman get younger and younger through each 10 year period until the date of first marriage is virtually impossible 

[mackers]

Firstly apologies for once again resurrecting this thread. I do so in the hope that at this remove from my last appeal for help more information might be at hand to the more experienced members on the site, some who in the past have helped in my quest.

My main reason for this repost is the situation vis-a-vis the spelling of the surname McCann that I am looking for especially in regards a version that spells it as follows M'Cann where the small c is replaced by a small comma?
When I did this in findmypast a number of extra possible George M'Cann's came to light.

And to recap I am searching for a George McCann married to a Mary ? who bore a son called Edward around 1845 give or take 2 years either way from Drumcree Parish sorry can't say for sure if they were R.C. or Protestant? Previously a Mary Cooke was suggested but sadly the dates just didn't fit Edward's age profile. A name of a church was mentioned in Edward's marriage record that being St John's but that was as much as was written. For the record Edward married Teresa Hamill both from Portadown Teresa father was Patrick Hamill and Mother was Anne Carr. He and Teresa were wed in St Peters in Belfast in 1871 but they were in Belfast for 2 years before that date as I have discovered.

Hopefully some one on the site can help once again just in case I am missing something. Many thanks in advance of any such assistance once again.

Mack

[aghadowey]

My main reason for this repost is the situation vis-a-vis the spelling of the surname McCann that I am looking for especially in regards a version that spells it as follows M'Cann where the small c is replaced by a small comma?
When I did this in findmypast a number of extra possible George M'Cann's came to light.

The newspapers, in order to save space abbreviated Mc names as M' but that is unlikely the way they would have written their surnames.

Have you checked the 1855 George McCann marriage to see if he was a bachelor or widower? if he was a widower then it's possible that Mary was Edward's stepmother.

[mackers]

Hi aghadowey

I did check and it says bachelor but to be honest there are just somethings that point in the direction of this being strange. Those being the connections through marriages that keep coming back to the Mary in question being Mary Cooke. One being that there are a number of inter family marriages that are way above coincidence. Also the area in question Kilgarve and Breagh being mentioned.

But as I said the M'Cann spelling has just added to the problem. As both Edward McCann's born around the time of his birth don't correspond to the information in regards his mothers name being Mary. Also the George I thought was his father in the Irish Census states he had 5 children but I can only find 3. So a previous marriage just might be the answer but marriage records that far back have no muck information  in that regard. Ah well so it goes.

Thank you very much for your response.

Regards

mack