Author Topic: A George McCann  (Read 7649 times)

Offline mackers

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Re: A George McCann
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 03 July 18 14:16 BST (UK) »
Hi Gaffy. Boy this gets harder by the day.

I was lucky enough some years back to see the actual hard copy register book in The Latter Day Saints Centre in Belfast, and it looked nothing like the form on line. It was in a hard backed book and the word Fravos was in the space where the child's name should have been. Still have my copy of the actual page somewhere. Another mystery gaffy. But I can rule out Easton St it didn't exist until much later and only had 3 large homes. Eton St is correct address for them.

Believe me there has been nothing easy about this search. Also in the 1911 census for Francis his date of birth from his given age would suggest he was born in 1877? States he is aged 34 in 1911. By the way the address in census is 4 Servia St Belfast. He is not in 1901 Census due to being in S. Africa in Boer War and also in India.

By the way couldn't find his birth in Glasgow on IGI. Did I get this wrong? Is that the site you were on?

Mack

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Offline gaffy

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Re: A George McCann
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 03 July 18 16:26 BST (UK) »
By now I'm never particularly surprised by inconsistencies in age, it's all pretty well par for the course for folk of that era, many of whom had not seen their birth certificate and didn't observe birthdays like we do today, I've seen numerous examples of age being out by 10 years from middle age onwards and from memory the worst I've encountered (and verified) was someone whose age was understated at death by 17 years (I imagine there are even worse examples), reporting of age by 3rd parties could be pretty ropey.  I've pm'ed you about Francis' birth. 


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Offline mackers

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Re: A George McCann
« Reply #29 on: Monday 29 October 18 23:13 GMT (UK) »

... Fast forward 10 years, to 14 July 1881 - again in St. Peter's RC Church Belfast  - when a Patrick McCann married Mary Hughes. While I can't see a civil registration for this marriage, a transcript of the church record gives Patrick's parents as George and Mary McCann and a comment further states that his parents were from County Armagh.  Interestingly, one of the witnesses was an Anne Cambridge.

Dispensation was sought / given, Mary's parents' names weren't listed but were stated in a comment to be from Portadown, County Armagh, the address given for both bride and groom was 13 Hatton Street (?) Belfast and the other witness was a Michael Barry ...


The address in the above record of marriage on 14 July 1881 was bugging me and I started to suspect mistranscription, since I couldn't find such a street name in contemporary street directories.  Then I noticed that Edward McCann and Teresa Hamill had a daughter Mary only a month or so earlier on 2 June 1881 at 13 Eton Street:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02832/2038335.pdf

Was 'Hatton' Street = Eton (a.k.a. Eaton) Street?  Looks like a definite maybe.

Edited to add: BTW, it seems that Patrick McCann and Mary Hughes then moved to Scotland and had a family, for example, daughter Maria was born on 4 September 1882 in Partick, significantly, her birth record states that parents Patrick McCann and Mary Hughes were married in Belfast, Ireland on 14 July 1881, which ties them nicely back to the St. Peter's RC Church marriage record. When Patrick died in 1929, the death registration stated the names of his parents (reported by the informant, his son Henry McCann) as George McCann, farmer and Mary Lappin, which ties him nicely back to the previously posted Drumcree RC parish baptism.  All things considered and notwithstanding the absence thus far of a baptism record for Edward McCann, it is a reasonable piece of conjecture that Patrick and Edward were brothers.

Sorry Gaffy can I ask where Patrick McCann died in 1929? Sorry about not getting back on this.

Offline gaffy

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Re: A George McCann
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 09:33 GMT (UK) »

Sorry Gaffy can I ask where Patrick McCann died in 1929? Sorry about not getting back on this.


Patrick died at 38 Milton Place, Glasgow.

Offline mackers

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Re: A George McCann
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 30 October 18 11:33 GMT (UK) »

Sorry Gaffy can I ask where Patrick McCann died in 1929? Sorry about not getting back on this.


Patrick died at 38 Milton Place, Glasgow.

Thank you once again Gaffy. I'll try finding out more about him, regards. Mack

Online shanreagh

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Re: A George McCann
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 10 February 19 01:10 GMT (UK) »
I have been looking at the thread and note that Edward is said to be borne around 1845.  I note also that the one of the George McCanns in 1911 census has his age as 83 ie born 1828.   While not getting too hung up on ages a marriage at 17 years does seem to be quite young. 

Where have you found the possible date of birth being 1845? I know Edward dies 1897 and his death is reported by Teresa NcCann who made her mark.  His age is given as 52. I am supposing that this is where the date of 1845 comes from. 

I have been looking at the census records for George McCann for 1901/1911.  In the first he is 70, is a linen weaver, cannot write and his mark is made. He is RC.  The second one, in 1911, a George McCann is  a widower, farmer and his signature is made and to me it looks quite assured. 

Significantly he has inadvertently, and helpfully (for us) completed the section of the census about children born and still living.  This was to have been completed by his wife had she been living.  In this in 1911 he states he has 5 children born and 5 children living and was married for 54 years. If his age at 83 is correct and he counts himself as still married though widowed this means he was married in 1854 at the age of 29. Also all of his children are still living at 1911 whereas we know that Teresa McCann was the informant at her husband's death in 1897. 

Sadly I think we should put aside for the moment the two census records and possibly the age that Teresa has stated her husband was.....she is shown as not not able to write hence the mark. 

I think we may be following good leads with the work that Gaffy has done. 

Just looking at the death entry the death happened 4/2/1897 at 3 Croziers Row Belfast.
Here is photograph in Croziers Row in 1911
http://omeka.qub.ac.uk/files/original/4b6098f4487f0958fdd77d6668f5a6f8.jpg

Do we have a list of the births of the children  of Edward and Teresa McCann in chronological order.

This can sometimes be useful if we match to the naming order adopted in Ireland. Just warning that this is not as slavishly followed in Ireland as in Scotland as the Irish were often attracted by and honoured say a local person they highly regarded.  It is a start at least. It may give a few clues.   
First born son named after his father's father
Second born son named after his mother's father
Third born son named after his father
Fourth born son named after his father's oldest brother
Fifth born son named after his father's 2nd oldest brother
or his mother's oldest brother


First born daughter named after her mother's mother
Second born daughter named after her father's mother
Third born daughter named after her mother
Fourth born daughter named after her mother's oldest sister
Fifth born daughter named after her mother's 2nd oldest sister
or her father's oldest sister


Online shanreagh

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Re: A George McCann
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 10 February 19 01:42 GMT (UK) »
Searching  for a McCann/Lapp*n connection brings this baptism up. In Dublin at St Andrews RC in 1877 where Patrick McCann is a sponsor
Name   SARAH LAPPIN
Date of Birth   N/R N/R 1877
Address   5 DENZILLE ST
Father   ANDREW LAPPIN
Mother   ANNE KENNEDY

Sponsor 1   PATRICK MCCANN
Sponsor 2   CATHERINE WALSH