Author Topic: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER  (Read 14694 times)

Offline afredwm

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 25 August 10 14:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Barry / Nomer
Thanks for the info, everything matches what I already had regarding Georges children, but the info linking back to Thomas  and his children is all new. I now have many new leads to follow.
George Messenger is my Great Great Grandfather. I am related through Ernest John, then Ernest George and my father Wayne Ewart.
I had always found it hard to find info in SA, as the BDM records ar not online. Any info you could send my way would be much appreciated

Offline resource

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 01 December 11 06:35 GMT (UK) »
there is mystery re thomas james messenger, born 11/8/1831 [my ancestor].
s.aust. records show that he arrived in 1839 on 'the resource', from aylesbury, buckinghamshire, aged 8.
a mrs. james [perhaps elizabeth] messenger was on the same ship, as was little amy mills [& family]-- he later married amy in 1851.
i have found no record of his parentage from s. aust library records.
old family info i have been given by relatives indicate that he is my ancestor, & not the thomas messenger who arrived on the 'william malcolm' in 1848.
who was mrs. james messenger? a mother, or maybe relative?
investigation this week at the state library in s. aust. found no record of her since the 1839 arrival. what was her maiden name, nothing shows re her death, or on thomas's marriage records, or on census info.
in july, i travelled to the u.k. 'ancestor hunting' [again!], & spent 3 days at the centre for buckinghamshire studies at aylesbury--my second visit there ,to look for thomas & co. history.
after searching, with much staff assistance, no record was found of thomas james, or a mrs. james messenger, or a link with a william messenger/mary henley, suggested by others possibly as his parents, or anyone else who may have been linked by dates.
certainly, there is evidence of messengers in the various aylesbury parish records, & in the 'posse commitatus of 1798' records, with earliest  messenger listing in approx.1610.
incidentally, i visited a new aylesbury suburb with 'messenger close' as an area there.
before travelling to the u.k this year, i wrote to about 2 dozen messengers listed in the aylesbury & surrounds phone books seeking info on thomas or his parents, or family histories that may interlock, & had several responses---but with no actual interlock.
i know much of thomas's & amy's family history since his arrival in 1839 [co-incidentally, the same year that my ancestors on my mother's side arrived, so both within about the first 6000 colonists in s.aust!] ---but nothing of his british ancestory.
i am interested to know if he was able to take up land holdings here. if so, where did the money come from?--or was he share-farming, or labouring? needs more research.
the bucks centre suggested that there may be records in adjoining oxfordshire of thomas, because messengers were prominent there as early auctioneers. perhaps he was born near oxford & then moved to aylesbury. i haven 't researched this possibility.
it is surprising that i haven't been able to link his history or that of likely parents by date, etc. somewhere---but of course there were not complete records back then---only parish marriages, baptisms & deaths, & no censuses until later.
can anyone add information please?

Offline Nomer

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 01 December 11 08:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi -

Like you, I've been struggling along trying to decipher Thomas James Messenger's history and some curious issues about when he arrived and where he was born. 

Like you I have been hunting through Buckinghamshire records.  I've been unable to find any Thomas James Messenger, however when I looked I noticed that there is no record of his middle name being James, such as on his marriage certificate, birth certificates for children or his death certificate. I've wondered if this name was taken on by Thomas unofficially or just never recorded by the officials (or, possibly, not even used by Thomas and created by someone else?)

The best fit I could find within Buckinghamshire records was Thomas Messenger, baptised 19 Sept 1830 in Hulcott.  This matches the right age of Thomas James Messenger, according to other records, however this is the Thomas that ended up migrating to Australia in 1848 on the David Malcolm.  This date of immigration also fits how long he was reported to have spent in Australia according to his death notice in the Advertiser (62 years). If he'd been on the Resource, he'd have been in Australia for 71 years.

I'd be really interested to know the information that family relatives gave you about the relationship not being with the Thomas Messenger who arrived in 1848 - noone that I had contact with discussed family history with me.



Offline crow41

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #21 on: Friday 02 December 11 01:05 GMT (UK) »
Nomer,
You may be right about 'Thomas James" actually being only 'Thomas". The South Aust  Index of BDM's only show him as Thomas in all their entries. He is also noted in a small family history booklet of ours produced in 1980 as "Thomas" only.
Thomas appears as Thomas James in "Cotters, Ruths, Kealys etc", family tree ahnentafel in Rootsweb.
Note Our Thomas Messenger from Aylesbury is s/o William Messenger and Mary Henley, this is as far as we have traced back on this branch.
hoey, allen, shaw, ferguson, griffin, hossack, hammerton, hornsby, ryles, coates, symons, knight, south australia, victoria, u.k.

Offline resource

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #22 on: Friday 02 December 11 03:34 GMT (UK) »
all good info!
i will find family info etc. re thomas arriving in 1839, & circulate.
as indicated before, i have found no records for william m. & mary henley in aylesbury records as thomas's parents for relevant dates.
k.

Offline Nomer

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #23 on: Friday 02 December 11 06:18 GMT (UK) »
Note Our Thomas Messenger from Aylesbury is s/o William Messenger and Mary Henley, this is as far as we have traced back on this branch.

Could you let me know what sources you've used to come up with William Messenger and Mary Henley as parents?  I started with these parents as well, but having searched all the primary records I could find and haven't been able to find any sources that showed this outside of the IGI records.  Thanks.

Offline Billyblue

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #24 on: Friday 02 December 11 06:32 GMT (UK) »
Hello
Did you all know that there is (well there used to be - haven't checked lately) someone doing a one name study of MESSENGER, in GOONS?

My cousin married a Messenger but unfortunately the patriarch of the family is in his 90s and not 'into' FH.    :D  :D  :D

Dawn M
Denys (France); Rossier/Rousseau (Switzerland); Montgomery (Antrim, IRL & North Sydney NSW);  Finn (Co.Carlow, IRL & NSW); Wilson (Leicestershire & NSW); Blue (Sydney NSW); Fisher & Barrago & Harrington(all Tipperary, IRL)

Offline Nomer

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #25 on: Friday 02 December 11 08:44 GMT (UK) »
Just checked GOONS - it seems to have been removed which is a pity.  I would have been interested to see what they had!

Offline resource

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Re: South Australia Immigration: Thomas James MESSENGER
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 26 August 12 02:18 BST (UK) »
there has been much miss-information posted here re thomas messenger who arrived in s.a. in 1839 on the 'resource', the same ship which carried mrs. james messenger, & also little amy mills, who little thomas, then 8 y.o., later married at holy trinity church, north tce., adelaide.
i posted info on this site on 1/12/11 re thomas, my great grand father, following my latest visit to aylesbury.
today, an elderly relative is coming to my home to discuss family history.
she is the daughter of my grandfather's sister.
my grandfather was the last-born of thomas & amy, i.e. alfred james messenger.
it will be an interesting afternoon, i feel!
and i hope it will solve the mystery, rather that compound it!
who were thomas's parents, & where from!