Gullistan Cottages

[Marc Mc Namara]

Hi Shane,
i recently found family at 234 in Township Cottages (Rathmines & Rathgar East, Dublin) - can you shed any light on where these were / are relevant to today - Thanks

[shanew147]

Township cottages , Rathmines East DED 1901 = Gullistan Cottages.. 

Did you have a post about this on Dublin.ie ?


Shane

[Marc Mc Namara]

Yes but I got a couple of inconclusive answers - is this address still valid?

[shanew147]

It's definitely the same location, but the numbers changed slightly. Instead of being in the 200s as on the 1901 census they were renumbered (1to 63) soon after. Based on the details (newspaper & census) I found on the Roe family, and the cert Martin found, number 257 Township cottages equates to 15 or 16 Gullistan Cottages. I'm not sure yet what number 234 would be, I'm trying to cross-check the occupants of the 1901 vs 1911 census details to see if there are any matches.

I believe these 1 to 63 numbers are still in use... I'll try to check tomorrow if I've time.

Gullistan Cottages, map

Gullistan Cottages, Aerial view



Shane

Edit : Since the reverse of the 1901 census forms are not online yet, there's no way to confirm at the moment if the numbers used are official addresses or just site numbers.

[shanew147]

I've checked the names listed on the 1901 census for Township cottages against those for Gulistan Cottages in 1911 and found a possible pattern to the renumbering.

In 1901 the house have site numbers from 210 to 272, and in 1911 the are numbered 1 to 62, with number 45 missing. Unfortunately all the houses are the same structure so there are no clues in the building returns.

The possible match involves reversing the order (so 272 to 210) and reassigning numbers of 1 to 63. So no. 272 in 1901 becomes No. 1, no. 271 becomes no. 2 etc.

Using this system I can find 12 houses that have the same surnames in 1911 as in 1901. This system also fits with the 1901 article on the Roe family living no. 16 Gulistan Cottages / 257 Township Cottages. I plan to check the details for a selection of people at the matched addresses to double-check this system.

Using this system translates the 1901 census address of 234 Township cottages to 30 Gulistan Cottages in 1911.


Shane

[Marc Mc Namara]

Hi Shane,
I have just obtained a record from Glasnevin for my GG Grandfather, whom passed in 1900 and suprise suprise his address was 34,GULLISTAN COTTAGES
Surname:   DENNISON
Firstname:   WILLIAM
Last address:   34,GULLISTAN COTTAGES,
RATHMINES,
COUNTY DUBLIN.

Date of death   03 Nov 1900

What is interesting is that this is the father of Lucy McNamara living at the Township Cottage on the Census - so why was it known as GULLISTAN COTTAGES in 1900 and 1911 but the TOWNSHIP in 1901?? I am assuming that this is the same property....
any thoughts

[shanew147]

In about the 1820s there was a house named Gulistan in the vicinity, and later the 1860s two houses were built on an road which became known as Gulistan terrace. Land around this terrace was purchased by Rathmines and Urban District Council (i.e. the township) in 1891 to build 'artisan dwellings'. 64 houses were built at a total cost of £11,000 (src: 'Four Roads to Dublin' by Deirdre Kelly).

I suspect that the difference in the location name is accounted for by the fact that the cottages were quite new at the time of the 1901 census, and due to the location (off Gulistan Terrace) would almost certainly have been known locally, and possibly by Rathmines UDC, at that time as Gulistan Cottages. The census on the other hand was based on Electoral Districts (DEDs) and national boundaries, so may not have yet acknowledged the local name at the time of the 1901 census.

I've seen similar discrepancies for several addresses between various sources at times e.g. census, Thom's directories, local knowledge, certs, voting registers.. etc..

The updated OSI maps show house numbers for many addresses, including the cottages.... see Gulistan Cottages  (click street map [beta] for the version with numbers). The numbers for the cottages dont seem to follow a logical sequence .. It looks like maybe the three rows to the south of the terrace are numbers 1 to 33, and the higher numbers are for the cottages to the north of the terrace.

I can have a look over the weekend and check which is number 34 if you wish..


Shane

[Marc Mc Namara]

That makes a lot of sense - Thanks.  It was intersting for me to make the link of the families as for me this is the more interesting aspect of family history but i do like to visit the locations that they lived and get a feel for the environment.

Out of interest, the same family were previously at St Marys Terrace Rathmines but this does not appear on the 1901 (?) but is there in 1911 - again, did it have a District name?  The death cert was for 1898 ??

[shanew147]

sometimes these terraces were actually just sections of a street... so not always listed separately. I'll see if I can located any details on the location of St. Mary's Tce ..



Shane