Author Topic: Shortall - Sir Patrick  (Read 29513 times)

Offline Xotan

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 26 September 10 20:31 BST (UK) »
Hello Dubblinn,

Sorry to be so late getting back.  I was in Ireland and and at present am  travelling home.  I should be there tomorrow, with luck.

I will be happy to let you have such information as I have, but it's mainly about Sir Patrick S, his wife, Polly, being my great aunt.

While in Ireland I discovered Polly's grave, and contrary to the report I got from Glasnevin, Sir P IS buried there.  He died in 1925.  Also his son James is there.  James died (if I remember correctly) in 1932.  I took a picture and can let you have a copy, if you wish.  I just need a few days to settle in and look after such matters as may have arisen during my absence.

Regards

David.

Offline DubbLinn

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 26 September 10 23:17 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the update. Sorry I missed your visit to Dublin but I only found this site very recently.
I was always told by my elders that Sir Pat was a Grand Uncle but that is all I can remember with certainty

My grandad Matthew Shortall is the line I am most interested in at present,  but as Matthew and Sir Pat were brothers? I am also interested in any information about Pat and the other brothers (Grand Uncles).
I need a copy of Matthews birth cert. before I can be absolutely sure I am dealing with the same family. The reason for this is because I cannot put Matthew in the same place as Sir Pats mother 'Marcella' re; 1901 census. According to the 1901 census returns made by Marcella Shortall (42 York Street) Matthew is not mentioned? he should be about 13/14 years old then and I would have expected him to be at home with his mother?  Matthew is living at 1 Ennaville Terrace in the 1911 census.

I have a little information about my Great Grandad James Shortall. He was married to Marcella Dunne in Dublin on 7th May 1871. His father (My great great grandad) is also mentioned on that wedding cert as Patrick Shortall. The address given for James is 33 Clarendon Street Dublin.
It appears that the Shortalls did not move very far from the area west of St. Stephens Green.
My father Andrew (born 1916) lived in Aungier Street before moving to Donnycarney (Nth. Dublin) in about 1948/49.
Looking forward to further updates.
Francis (Frank)

Offline Xotan

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 29 September 10 12:10 BST (UK) »
Hello again Dubblinn.

Home at last, and I have had a chance to download the photos I took when in Ireland.  I am including here one that may be of interest to you.  It is of the Shortall grave in Glasnevin.  Also a portrait shot of Polly and Pat.  It's a very old one, getting on for a hundred years or maybe even more.  I have done my best with restoring it on the computer, but it would require an expert's attention.

I'm not sure if any of this provides information that will be of direct use to you in your search.

BTW, just in case you were not aware, Sir Ptk. lived in 47 Hardwicke Street, next door to my grandparents, who lived in No. 46.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Polly and my grandmother were sisters.

Regards,

David


Offline DubbLinn

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 30 September 10 16:28 BST (UK) »
Thanks for posting the photos. I think that is the first time I have seen a picture of Sir Pat and his wife Mary. The grave looks in good condition. One thing, I am a bit confused as to whether Sir Pats mother (Marcella) is buried there or not?
Sorry if I gave the impression that I thought you were a descendant of the Shortalls, but I am aware of your connection to Mary (Polly) from the previous posts.
Frank


Offline Xotan

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 30 September 10 22:15 BST (UK) »
Hello Dubblinn,

We are not really of the same stock, but that was never an impediment when I was a kid in Dublin.  Everyone was 'uncle'or 'aunt'.  So don't let a technicality of descent bother you.

If you read the headstone again, you will see that it does specifically mention Sir Pat's mother.  However, although it gives a date of decease, it does not mention her name, which is a bit odd.  So there can be no question but that she is interred in the same grave.

Sorry, but I have no other information on the Shortalls.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 30 September 10 22:18 BST (UK) »
Headstone is a bit hard to read but I can't see that it says the mother is actually interred there so don't assume she is.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline DubbLinn

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 30 September 10 22:35 BST (UK) »
Headstone is a bit hard to read but I can't see that it says the mother is actually interred there so don't assume she is.
I agree, hence the confusion as to why Sir Pat should mention his mother in this manner and without her name, very strange.
At least I have the date of her death and so I can get the death cert etc. I would think that the cemetery records will give me the information as to who exactly is interred there? I will check it out ASAP.
Frank

Offline DubbLinn

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 30 September 10 22:42 BST (UK) »
Hello Dubblinn,

We are not really of the same stock, but that was never an impediment when I was a kid in Dublin.  Everyone was 'uncle'or 'aunt'.  So don't let a technicality of descent bother you.

If you read the headstone again, you will see that it does specifically mention Sir Pat's mother.  However, although it gives a date of decease, it does not mention her name, which is a bit odd.  So there can be no question but that she is interred in the same grave.

Sorry, but I have no other information on the Shortalls.

No problem Zotan. I do agree it is a bit odd that Sir Pats mothers name  is not inscribed on the headstone, makes me think that she is not interred there. I will investigate this further.
Also taken from the inscription Sir Pats son James died very young at only 31yrs old.
Frank


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Shortall - Sir Patrick
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 30 September 10 22:51 BST (UK) »
Wonder if this could be Sir Patrick's mother? 9 children with 7 alive.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mansion_House/York_Street__Part_of_/79710
(son Henry also a builder)

There's a death in Oct./Dec.1915 Dublin registration district for a Marcella Shortall (born c1851)

Here's Marcella and other children in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/York_Street/1344171

For reference here's Sir Patrick in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rotunda/Hardwicke_St_/32011
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!